DM-VulcanoIsland (alpha); now: DM-CraterIsland

unknown2604 · Unreal Old Friend

DM-VulcanoIsland (alpha); now: DM-CraterIsland

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

DM-VulcanoIsland (alpha)

stevelois · ...

Nice start :)

I understand that you just beginning mapping. You need to focus on basics like layout, flow, gameplay first. Eye candy stuff, sounds & atmosphere come after. Most new mappers tend to focus on the pretty side first but it's the last aspect you need to work on.

Size wise, from those pics, it look way to big for DM & gameplay would fit more VCTF/WAR.

Your water material is looking awesome, I like the sand too. For the volcano, you better make your own mesh or use a mix of rock meshes. It would look way much better & will provide more freedom (artistically speaking).

Can't say more lol

Sly. · Unreal Old Friend

Some advice: I would add some grass and other plants like ferns where the palms are, but also try to put some separate palms on the beach, it will make it look less crowded and have a more fluent change from beach to "forest". Don't forget that you will occasionally find a stone here and there but also rocks and some little "plateaus" the more you're going to the center of the island. I would say, don't add any bunkers or things of this kind, it's a little island, I wouldn't see any strategic use in such a little thing. Try some rock formations and maybe a ship-wreck and bunches of wood planks and a broken pole with a sail on it or something like that. Something that better fits this "romantic mood" of this island. I think in this case it's alright to say "keep it clishé".

Oh, and are these Nobiax' palms? Which version did you use?

PS: Maybe you would want to replace the lava with a lake in the vulcano? We see lava in vulcanos many times and in my opinion it is maybe a bit too much clishé, it might be good to have something different in a map so that if someone says "you played that map with the island and the vulcano with the lake in it?" everybody will know which one the person is talking about. That lava means it's an active one, how about one that didn't break through yet and has boiling hot water in it? It might sound strange at first, but it's no phantasy if there is a lake in the crater and a lot of steam leaving the vulcano, that's what happens before it breaks open and turns into a fire-mountain if I recall correctly. In one 007 movie there was even a base hidden in a vulcano that seemed to have a lake in it, it was a fake lake though, made of steel and nobody suspected it. Sadly, I forgot how the 007 movie was called, it was mainly in Japan and James Bond faked his death at the beginning.

-- Edited by Sly. on Saturday 5th of May 2012 12:43:04 AM

unknown2604 · Unreal Old Friend

thank you for your comments :)

I will try to clarify some points.

@stevelois: I know that I should first focus on gameplay and flow. As I mentioned in my first post I am fully aware that the order in which I learned things are odd and don't make much sense lol. At first my "map" wasn't created for playing but only to learn and understand how things work. I just thought maybe someone would be happy to get a bright island map (as I think there aren't that many?). So maybe I am able to add at least a bit gameplay afterwards now... ;)
I hope that some buildings or ruins on the beach could add some strategic points.

With the water material I orientated at Hourences water material and did some changes. After understanding how to create materials I was able to add those caustic effects for underwater.

@Bl!tz and stevelois: Map size.. yea when I started I just had little to no plan how large my terrain had to be. I think a smaller but therefore more detailled terrain would have been better. Well it was intended to take the foot of the mountain as a boundary so you are not able to get arround the whole island. Maybe i will cut more land at the left side of the island (first screenshot). There is already a small naturally limitation which you can't see well on the screenshot. The terrain behind the mountain will be completely hidden then.

The remaining terrain will be quite large anyway, but I don't have much experience with VCTF and WAR gametype. Maybe I could cut the terrain to make the beach a little smaller?

Also it was not intended to get on the top of the mountain. Maybe a vulcano mesh could be better, I also thought so (I didn't knew when I started so I decided to use terrain). But since you should only be able to get to the foot of the mountain maybe some rocks and details at the right places should do a good job too? Or are there any other advantages in replacing the terrain mountain with a mesh beside from the look? performance maybe?

@Bl!tz: Until now I only concentrated on details to get a nice atmosphere in my jungle^^ but of course I planned to add some details and vegetation all arround the island. I love little details in maps and so i will try to place as many as I can without making it look overloaded.

Thank you for pointing out the contrast. I will work on that. But I want to keep the yelloish sand so I hope with more details the contrast won't be that big anymore.

I will try to increase the smoke a little. But where do you suggest could I add lava? Some flowing lava over the rocks and the beach or only in the vulcanic crater? (there is already a little red light to simulate glowing lava which you would't see anyway from the ground).

If you are interested I could try to provide a downloadable version soon. This of course would still make not much sense for real playing =/ well maybe it's even impossible for me to add a real flow to that map as it is now... time will tell... biggrin

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

agree with sly. that they are many volcanos with lava inside but imo noone is a day version and on another hand there s also maps on tropical islands with no lava....lol (cf diesalot s DM-paradise island)
i was thinking to something like the reunion island in the indian ocean with a non explosive volcano: only lava coming from time to time from the center and slowly "falling" in the sea
if u dont want to have too many beaches u can have cliffs on one side and beaches on the other side, works often like that in reality (the side exposed to the main wind n waves is more eroded and have cliffs

here s what i m trying to say by lava, with a failure in the center allowing a lava flow to the sea or closed with lava inside, imo lava allow some variety visually and even on the gameplay side it add a danger touch: u can have some jumppads or bridges to force peeps to be prudent and can also reduce the side of the map(sorry i did it fast and it s uggly lol but @ least it show the idea :p :

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Bit late with my reply...

I think it's looking good so far unknown!

I like the idea of a daytime volcano on a tropical island theme! biggrin

I'd like to see some green(grassy) ground within the central area of the palm field which then fades to the darker sand to the lighter sand. Doing this will make any other low laying foliage fit better when you go to do it. Setup the foliage so it high enough to occasionally block the players vision to keep things interesting!
I could imagine some firefights amongst the palm and thickish vegetation where combatants have to get close to each other to see them!
I quite like Bl!tz's idea on having a laval flow into the ocean. You could have a deep channel that the lava has cut which adds a danger element and also funnel the action to a couple of points where players have to travel to to get across the laval flow. Like a bridge and a couple of fallen trees that allow a player to cross . If you go down a warfare path setup a couple of smooth rocks where players can use hoverboards to jump over the laval flow. Also have steam rising from the ocean which covers the nearby area as another visual treat and visual obsticle that players have to navigate.

Regarding game type, I think the map could suit a Warfare map quite well.
My thoughts....
Put the cores either side of that large rocky overhang(right hand side, 1st pic).
Have a lava flow(as Bl!tz has suggested) but have one one each side of the island as a restrictive zone to get to the area where the cores reside. For crossing the laval channels have a primary bridge that large vehicles can use plus a couple of small things like I mentioned before(rock to hoverboard jump from and fallen tree) so infantry can get across using these sections. This will funnel the action to these areas when things get hairy for the loosing team.

Using the steam idea, hide the primary nodes for each team within the steam. Setup a basic structure, hidden within the fog so it can somewhat protect the node from far away guessed pot shots.

I think this would make for some interesting gameplay as players will have to get close to see and take the node! Imaging running through a dense fog and suddenly a Goliath tank appears right in front of you.

Next have a central node in the middle of the palm area. Restrict vehicles getting in there so you have an on-foot battle raging for control of that point. Hide the central node within a set of ruins, as you've suggested, or a shipwreak.(I think either of them would look cool and suit the map ) Have the ruins/shipwreak prohibit people from shooting the node from far away, forcing them in close to attack and take control of the node!

If you're keen on going down the Warfare path and aren't sure how to set it up, it's pretty easy, so post a comment here or PM me and I can help you out if needed! smile

-- Edited by Lord_PorkSword on Monday 7th of May 2012 03:20:38 AM

unknown2604 · Unreal Old Friend

Sorry for answering that late. I wasn't at home most of the time and won't have much time to work on the map the next days. I will have time again in June I think!

But you all gave some really good ideas and inputs. I will now try to implement what I can. And you all nearly convinced me to try a WAR map too^^

@Sly: I also like the idea with a lake in the vulcono. Maybe I will do two versions in the end because me and my friends would rather play the DM gametype and I could do some gameplay improvements then. So I could create a DM map with a lake and a WAR map with active vulcano and lava flows, steam and so on. You are right btw. The palm trees are from Nobiax. I use version 2 and version 3 (mAlkAv!An converted those for me in the Open License Assets thread) Have a look on the screen on the end of my post!

@Lord PorkSword: thank you! I'm sure I will have some questions how to implement the Warfare thing, but at first I try to work on your other suggestions :)

I already experimented with the suggestions from you all but first results were to ugly so I will add new screenshots after doing some more improvements (but most likely not before June hmm ).

Howerver I totaly forgot to take a screenshot of the "jungle" for my first post. Here it is...

I'm not happy with the grass as it is now. Maybe I will change the texture and make it a little higher to block players vision like Lord PorkSword suggested.

-- Edited by unknown2604 on Saturday 19th of May 2012 10:15:49 AM

Sly. · Unreal Old Friend

Glad to hear we could help you!

Well, the problem is that the grass is not really dense. Then, it lacks little rocks and of course the most important thing: a grass texture beneath the grass! You won't see grass grow on dirt like this, this looks not very smooth, I recommend to add a grass texture to the terrain where you intend to use grass so that the transition from foliage to terrain will be much smoother and subtle.

stevelois · ...

About the grass look on the terrain, you need to paint the terrain with a grass material under the grass meshes to make it look natural. It will look way much better.

DarK · Checkmate mate.

Bl!tz wrote:
agree with sly. that they are many volcanos with lava inside but imo noone is a day version and on another hand there s also maps on tropical islands with no lava....lol (cf diesalot s DM-paradise island)
i was thinking to something like the reunion island in the indian ocean with a non explosive volcano: only lava coming from time to time from the center and slowly "falling" in the sea
if u dont want to have too many beaches u can have cliffs on one side and beaches on the other side, works often like that in reality (the side exposed to the main wind n waves is more eroded and have cliffs

here s what i m trying to say by lava, with a failure in the center allowing a lava flow to the sea or closed with lava inside, imo lava allow some variety visually and even on the gameplay side it add a danger touch: u can have some jumppads or bridges to force peeps to be prudent and can also reduce the side of the map(sorry i did it fast and it s uggly lol but @ least it show the idea :p :

LOL nice skills there m8! :P

unknown2604 · Unreal Old Friend

DM-VulcanoIsland (alpha); now: DM-CraterIsland

Sly. · Unreal Old Friend

Nice, nice! That is what I call great progress! It looks much better now
Glad to see you liked the idea of the lake

NOVA · French cat under acid

Hi unknown2604, I have tested your map.

The idea is nice, you're on the good way in the design aspect.

But, as I supposed, the map is not design for a proper DM.

There is no layout, every items are spreads without think to what is a DM.

But it's really easy to fix that.

first, look a this :

Why I will make all this miles to go on this places to just pick up a Flack cannon or health, plus this areas are "dead ends".

Dead ends are allowed or justified only if you have a reward to obtain like a powerup (it's the old school rule of the "reward vs risk").

Plus in terme of "flow", it's just aberrant.

Basically, "Flow" mean you can run right in front of you without be block or have to go back, you have to think "loops".

Second point, the beach is too open, it's too easy to kill someone or to be kill, check that :

Rocks will provide protection for player.

Also, there is lot's of places where I would design a trail to indicate to the player where is the items to pick up.

I hope it help, keep up the good work dude ;)

-- Edited by NOVA on Thursday 1st of November 2012 08:46:14 PM