Blender Practice

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

RE: Blender Practice

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

good job, cant wait to see it textured

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

Odedge, this is a single object. One could save several vertices/triangles by splitting it up but the task was to make it beeing one object.

If it comes to hardsurface modeling I prefer creating the low poly model first. Afterwards this lp model will be taken to a sculpting prog to add finer details and baking normal-, displacement-, specular-, ambientocclusion-maps out of this.

Here is another example of a barrel I'm working on at the moment

low poly

middle details

fine details

If you create the high poly model first you have to do either a retopology or using poly reducing tools/modifiers (which are very unclean in many cases) like Blender's Decimate modifier for instance. This way is usually choosen for organic/character modeling.

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Sunday 2nd of October 2011 09:51:37 AM

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

wow...wow...wow....this "fine detailed" barrel is nicely done

stevelois · ...

Yep, the barrel fine details is looking good :)

Achernar · Amateur UT mapper

Those are some great details you've added. I was wondering are you going to generate the wood diffuse? With so much detail already on the mesh it would seem using a wood pattern texture would confuse/ conflict with the normal information?

I was a little unfamiliar with this work flow (low to high) but it seems to make good sense if used in the right context, thanks for showing :)

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

My idea is to use a uniform wood texture (without many grooves and only slight grain) and add the sculpted details via a ambientocclusion map (or height map) to the diffuse texture to make it fit with the normal map.

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Monday 3rd of October 2011 10:46:22 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

Just a little note that Blender 2.60 has been released. Some of the bug fixes might be more useful to us than anything else. The biggest thing I am looking forward to is anything to help with the UV layout.

Also, Blender Cookie created a tutorial that covers a new add on that improves the functionality of texture painting, which might be useful if bake the textures to your UV layout.

That being said and I am sure I have asked you guys before:

Is there a way to scale UVs to be conistent with other UVs? Similar to when you apply a material to a BSP surface and you can scale it to a specific number and it will always be consistent?
Is there a way to lock the scaling when painting a texture? I find the tool very interesting and could be useful, but not if the scaling of textures will change depending on how far you are away from the mesh.

Thanks.

Achernar · Amateur UT mapper

Yeah already installed, so far so good.

I've yet to check that tutorial out but definatley in the todo list.

1. Well I haven't learnt anything new in that area. So same old advice. Use the UV test grid to estimate scaling, its not mathematically precise but enough to keep the looks under control.
2. I havent looked into this but I wonder if its possible to parent it to another object say an empty so that it scaling is linked / constrained that way? I definatly recomend joining Blender Artists and or Blender Newbie forums. My experience is pretty limited. confuse

In other news I found an intersting research article that I'd love to see in open source software. An idea that might spawn a whole new generation of image editors. [Source]

Vimeo

-- Edited by Achernar on Thursday 20th of October 2011 07:51:03 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

That was trippy! All that can be done with just a source picture? Damn skippy!

I know you can do this with Blender, but I am sure it's not that easy.

Thanks for posting that.

On another Blender note... I spent a little time tonight testing the Sculpting mode so I can complete my Temple map. So far so good, doing an in-game test in a few moments.

-- Edited by Odedge on Thursday 20th of October 2011 08:18:29 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

Just a little note that Blender 2.60a has been released, which fixes some minor, but important issues. Most noticeable is if you collapse the "menu" in 3D view, you can't bring it back. I just updated myself.

I also tested out MCampagnini's 1.40 script to test out vertex painting, which works! After this, I don't know if there is much he can really do to improve the script as there are probably limitations with the .ase format. This is actually a good thing. I suggested he ask the Blender foundation to include this script in an official build since there isn't an ASE exporter in the program. Granted, he didn't start the script, but he sure has finished it. He could always give "rich is bored" partial credit.

Achernar · Amateur UT mapper

Thanks for the heads up.

That's really great news about the new exporter. I strongly agree that exporter belongs as standard feature in Blender.

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

As you may know, version 1.4 has been released from MCampagnini. Remember that if you want vertex painting exported, you have to have 2 UV maps (this is not a technical requirement), just a coding one, which may change.

Also, I want to create a page that basically lists what can be done in Blender for the UT 3/UDK modder (mainly level design). I created this page for those who use it to check out and let me know if I have forgotten anything or need to correct my "wording". I will also like to add pictures of examples.

stevelois · ...

Very good Odedge :D

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

I was cleaning up some of my saved Blender related bookmarks and finally got to see what BSurfaces was all about. All I can say now is... pretty damn cool! Check out the official page here.

Achernar · Amateur UT mapper

Just garbed the new exporter, thx.

Well that page struck me as a good title page that could be integrated with all the links you've accumulated. A sort of functional overview of Blender uses / work flow.

My only notes are where you say

Create different types of meshes with Add-Ons

Masonry Walls
Trees?
Rocks

Perhaps this might be more descriptive

Create meshes procedurally using Add-Ons

Masonry Walls
Cogs
Ivy
Trees? (?I'm unaware of the tree and rock scripts)
Rocks

The Texture section

Perhaps just say can create seamless textures (clone brushes) and render out a diffuse, normal, ?specular textures

Of Course there's animation / skeletal mesh creation (K-actors) /? I'm thinking soft bodies would come under the same thing.

The new Blender portal you've step is quite amazing! It will take me several weeks to comb through it all but on checking yesterday i noticed Gryllus.net is 404'ed

Top work, those pages are the most comprehensive I've seen.

-- Edited by Achernar on Monday 31st of October 2011 04:19:58 AM

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

If anyone needs something to work on..... I want some rocks made, like what Malk showed recently.
I want to make a simple level in UDK that's similar to Amytis, minus all the complicated BSP, to learn the UI in UDK.
Map will consist of jumping from asteroid to asteroid while shrouded in fog.
If ya feel like doing it I need say 2-3 different rocky type objects with 'flatish' tops, so players can walk on top of them, and also a sharper rocks or two for back ground decoration.

Only other thing would be round colums that are a little thicker section at each end.

If no one has tha time or can't be bothered...I might even feel adventurous enough to attemp this myself.

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

@ Achernar

Keep in mind this is a rough, rough outline and it's also a reminder for me of what I can do with Blender (right now I have too many small pieces of information floating in my head).
I would probably give a basic work flow (very basic) and have a picture of the final result. All things being equal, it would be nice to cerate a tutorial of sorts for both my and other people benifit.
With the add-ons, I want to show case stuff that would work with level design (columns are useful). I know you can create almost anything, but I also want to have "simpler" stuff to make in this section.
There is a "Sappling" add on as well as the rock one. I have tried the rock one a little bit and it's pretty cool to get you started, then you can finish the rest, though so far, it's a bit "random".
Regarding the texture, that's the general ideal. "You can create seamless textures", here is what you can do (though I won't go through how to do it on this page).
I am not going into animation and stuff like that as I am not familiar with it, unless some one gives me the information!
Thanks for the kind words. I think the portal is pretty good, just needs more UT/UDK related tutorials and information, hence the idea of this page as an outliner of sorts.
I made a note of Gryllius and his main site is still up, so I will have to relink the links... ack!

@ LPS

I can use the practice (and I am basically done with my Temple map). I will wait for others to reply, especially Malk (because you may be able to use his rock pack?).
THe rock island I have in my Temple map was made in Blender, it's more of an asteroid, then actual rocks (like Malk's), so I can easlly make something like that (though I need to practice makign the texture seamless (mine has a nice seam on the side).
As for the columns, that would be fun to try. Can you link me a picture to give me a general idea. Also, what can of material are you looking for?
Blener is waiting for you my friend!

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

For the column material something simple like metal will do. I'm wanting an iron/rustic look and a stone look.

As for design of the columns themselves.

Here's a few examples:

Starting from the left I'm after something like the first 3. I'm not after the fancy bolts on the top or bottom areas though. I'm happy with no 2 if that's easier to make.

I don't mind this design either. Maybe have some kind of simple pattern, within the material, repeat on the front and back in the center section.

Patterns like no. 4 or 5 below(starting from left). Not repeated 3 times vertically. Just once:

Last but not least..I might eventually do a quake 3 style space map and I think the following column looks pretty kewl:

Other things I'd be after is like rectangular iron arches. Like a doorway frame made of iron, but with no bottom.

Also rectangular colums which go straight up and they then angle inwards to a pyramid tip. I'd like a small are halfway up these rectangular colum to have a cut out from all 4 sides so I can place a source or something else inside them. Like shown below. Maybe have some kind of clip that a chain could be connected to. I'd rather skinny/sorta elegant rather than chunky...maybe both. ashamed

This pic also has a basic round column that I originally was after as well.

Anyways...hopefully that gives ya something to start from.

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

@ LPS

That is helpful indeed.

The more information (even if you make a basic brush layout in the editor or draw it in Paint, the better) you give me, the better. Also, what size are you looking for (radius and height).

I will start practicing as I need it on both the modeling side and the texturing side (which will be the hardest part probably for my current skill set).

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Here' some pics using BSP to help you out:

FYI Details:

The brown pillar is 350 high and the main section is 60 wide and the wider parts being 70 wide.

The door frame thingo is 220 high and 212 wide with the beams themselves being 20 wide with an indent depth and edge width of 4.

These are just reference measurements for ya so you don't have to make ya models to this exact size.

Regarding colums, maybe a similar width/height as the column here, however I also plan on using large ones as well, being around 10x the size!

-- Edited by Lord_PorkSword on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 03:23:58 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

You don't need Blender man when you have the editor! Though it won't recognize subtractive brushes when converting. For fun, I will try to duplicate what you did. But the best thing about making static meshes in a 3d program vs converting them is curved surfaces. wink

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

Ok, I need a lot of practice! I sort of got side tracked and decide to work on 1 mesh the entire way through (modeling, UV mapping, GIMP work, etc). It doesn't look all that great, but it's a Proof of Concept thing.

I did go overboard with the number of faces. This has 896 triangles!, but that includes the top and bottom (which you can't see) and each material is it's own extrude section, so I could save some triangles. I also used 64 sides.

The left is the mesh in the static mesh editor, the smoothing groups look good (the cyclinder sectiosn look smooth, but there are also clear "edges" when the mesh changes shape). The right one is how it looks in Blender with a basic render setup (which took more time for me to figure out and I can't believe I actually created a "render setup").

I tried one technique to texture it, but it didn't work well, so I had to create another technique, which worked better. Creating a single texture that the mesh will use is going to be the hard part for me, but something I need to learn. If I were to use texture in it's original size, it would look nicer, but at the cost of more texture memory.

I will try again and again and again. wink

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Excellent M8!

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

wow! ... nice columns guys

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

Good start odedge. Cylinders/columns are those objects where the concept of smoothing groups and hard edges can be shown very good.
I did take a look at your 'what blender can do for you' page and post some ideas later.

@LPS
What would be the size of those asteroids (in uu's)? I'll make a basic one later and you tell me if that is what you are looking for :)

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Regarding size, I'd like some that are around 800-1024 and roundish and also some that are longer than wider. eg.. 1024 long by 600 wide.
Doing this size allows me to shrink, or enlarge while keeping it looknig OK and not have the material looking to streached.
Otherwise if this proves difficult I'm happy with any size that you can give me!

Sly. · Unreal Old Friend

Looking nice Odedge! I wouldn't say the texturing looks bad, rather the opposite of bad (at least you can texture meshes unlike me... :P). I would reduce the cubemap's "glow" though so that it's less visible. I know it's the surface of the object's material, but I still think the reflection is a small little bit too heavy.

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

Lord_PorkSword wrote:
Regarding size, I'd like some that are around 800-1024 and roundish and also some that are longer than wider. eg.. 1024 long by 600 wide.
Doing this size allows me to shrink, or enlarge while keeping it looknig OK and not have the material looking to streached.
Otherwise if this proves difficult I'm happy with any size that you can give me!

Size won't be a problem.

What about something like this?

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Thursday 3rd of November 2011 09:00:26 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

Thanks Sly. Don't worry about the glow, that's a Blender Setting and I didn't take any time to make it look nice. I will set up a proper "render setup" for Blender.

Malk, I hate you, in a good way. Those are looking really nice!

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Excellent Malk!

I'm also after one that has an elongated body with a long sharp'ish top and bottom.(to be used for floating off in the distance) You could always made a side flatish so I could flip it on the side and use it as another walkable asteriod!

stevelois · ...

I like those rocks very much :D Good work Malk ;)

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

Lord_PorkSword wrote:
Excellent Malk!
I'm also after one that has an elongated body with a long sharp'ish top and bottom.(to be used for floating off in the distance) You could always made a side flatish so I could flip it on the side and use it as another walkable asteriod!

It's hard to tell from the side view pics but those are already longer than wider. Anyway, I made another one that, hopefully, meet your idea :)

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Thursday 3rd of November 2011 10:38:26 PM

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

I'm heavily into Cosmology and Astronomy (and avoid all that Astrology nonscence!!) and have seen many pics of moonlets, comets and asteriods. What I love about ya models is that you've captured to look to a tee M8! The likeness of your model to what's seen in real life is quite superb! My hat off to you Sir!
I can't wait to see it skinned!

Regarding an elongated asteriod I was thinking along the lines of the crappy pic I've posted below!

The left one say can have a 'walkable top' and the right one is for decoration only.

If you have better things to do don't worry about making more models, but if ya have the time then many thanx! biggrin

I can't wait to use them in a map and hope the map will do your asteriods justice M8!

-- Edited by Lord_PorkSword on Thursday 3rd of November 2011 11:20:54 PM

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

Now I see what you mean. Of course, this way around it looks much more realistic as the long side beeing that flat that you can walk and doge around without beeing blocked.

Thanks for the nice words. I made the fist 2 models out of imagination. But after looking at some real pictures today I realised that most asteroids are more roundish and have lots of small crates. Thats why I added all those little holes/breaks at the surface.

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Thursday 3rd of November 2011 11:57:38 PM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

I created an "inspired remake" of your door frame (trying to match the textures as well). This is using stock materials ans thus has 2 material slots. I did try to align the inner square materials nicely, but didn't spend any time with the other one.

The more complicated you make the mesh (even with just angled geometry), the more it makes sense to use a 3d modling program. I even though of making the "inserted" section angled as it goes into the mesh instead of at a 90 degree angle from the font side.

Next, I want to figure out how to make curved sections.

It reminds me of a recognizer from Tron?

EDIT: Here is a picture with the inside edges angled.

-- Edited by Odedge on Friday 4th of November 2011 05:00:55 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

Just a quick update for general Blender knowledge:

I used the curve modifer with different types of "curves" to get the below results. What's nice is that you can always delete the "curve" and not effect the mesh (unless you apply the modifier and make it a permanent change). You will have to play with the different modifiers to get used to them but the circle and path are pretty straight forward. Once you create a curve/path, you can then switch to the mesh and move it on that specific axis and the mesh will deform as you move it. This is important to know because if you extend your curve/path by extruding it, the mesh will move with it (in only 1 direction though), so you will have to adjust it later.

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

Looking good. I have to try this too, only know 3dsmax' modifier which works quite the same way. What base mesh did you use for those pics, the cylinder?

I tried to make some ferns. The model itself is not worth to mention I guess ^^

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Saturday 5th of November 2011 06:28:26 PM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

Yes, I used a cylinder with the base idea of trying to make a basic pipe, but got distracted.

That fern is looking very nice. Where did you get the picture from as I guess that would be the hard part (making the alpha layer for the transparent sections). It's good that you showed the model and the UV layout as well.

I presume UDK supports casting shadows based on the visible material? The ferns I have in my Tapinak map don't have crisp shadows like that! hmm

Sly. · Unreal Old Friend

Not worth the mention? It's trillion times better than the boring, cr@ppy looking UT3 ferns! >:O

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

That's a misunderstanding sly. I mean just the 3D model (that what you see on the blender pic) is nothing special - just some planes with a little bit of deformation. It's all about the texture to make those plants looking good.

Odedge wrote:

Yes, I used a cylinder with the base idea of trying to make a basic pipe, but got distracted.

That fern is looking very nice. Where did you get the picture from as I guess that would be the hard part (making the alpha layer for the transparent sections). It's good that you showed the model and the UV layout as well.

I presume UDK supports casting shadows based on the visible material? The ferns I have in my Tapinak map don't have crisp shadows like that!

I found a photo of a single fern leaf at the web (without copyrights). It has an uneven colored background what makes it really a pain in the ass to work with ^^ I used a preliminary texture for those pics because I haven't finished yet the photoshop work.

UDK can do that, but it also shows detailed shadows without a light rebuild - just after placing meshes in the level. That is what you can see at the pics.

Sly. · Unreal Old Friend

Well, in most cases it's about simplicity! You must think of it like that: The performance definitely won't $uck if you use them in a map, still they're good-looking.
I've seen many models that are unnecessary complex in my life... basically 90% of stock UT3 models, haha!

-- Edited by Sly on Saturday 5th of November 2011 07:50:05 PM

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

That's true but there is a difference between a model that "just" looks simple and one that is actually easy to make - regarding that fern it's simple in both ways :)

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Saturday 5th of November 2011 10:14:59 PM

Achernar · Amateur UT mapper

Hey nice ferns Malk :) Did you use one plane and just set the material to double sided or did you duplicate the plane an sit it just below then flip the normals?

@Odedge

I saw vid on Metalix that covered using beziers to create curved shapes and unwrap them easily. As an alternative.

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

I just used a two sided material. Otherwise the tri-count would have been doubled :)

Regarding the textures I think 1024x512 maps will do the job. Diffuse+Alpha+Normal just need ~1mb this way.

Oh, and after some optimization the model has only 160 tris now instead of 220 from the beginning.

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Sunday 6th of November 2011 01:30:11 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

@ Achernar

Thanks for the link. I have used Bezier curves in Gimp and understand them. The thing that took me some time to "get" was that once you made your curve, you could then slide the mesh along it and position it correctly.

That tutorial did help me understand the "Follow Active Quads" unwrap option, which is a nice thing. The trick seems to be that once you have the faces selected, you need to deselect one, the select it again, probably to be used as a starting point?

mAlkAv!An wrote:

Oh, and after some optimization the model has only 160 tris now instead of 220 from the beginning.

Now that is what you call optimization! A 27% reduction in polygons! biggrin

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

i have set a keybind for this thread but i dont want to "dailyspam" the place....promise!...i ll just use it from time to time

i m really impressed m8s, asteroids, vegetals, portal are nice...so...another time i push on the dedicaced key:"WOW! top job guys!"...

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

@ LPS

Steve posted on his site that Nobiax just released a column pack, which you might want to check out. I would still like to learn how to make them, but with the holidays and the pack coming to a close soon, I can't promise what I can do.

The other thing I need to get better at as well is creating the textures. So if you need/want to get them from another source, no worries from my end. Though I would still like to try and make some.

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

A thought popped into my brain... Does Blender use the same normal coordinates +X, -Y, +Z as UT 3/UDK? It looks like it does, but is there a way to be 100% sure?

mAlkAv!An · calculating Pi by hand

Yes it does. You can be sure because the results in UE3 are looking like they should do. If the green channel (y) is inverted, lights on the front or back would cast shadows on the wrong side (surfaces facing the light) of the faked geometry .
Take a close look at the normal map or at the green channel only. You have to imagine light coming from the top of the picture and therefore the upper parts of a bump have to be bright whilst lower parts are dark.

-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 09:18:52 AM