Thrallala, thanks for the feedback. Here are my replies to your comments in my intro thread.

1. The music, for me. Music in UT3 maps is supposed to like get me going, to motivate me to kill some bots! the track you're using feels pretty boring and slow imo :P

When choosing a track, I tried some that were more aggressive, but they did not seem to fit the map. I have no particular attachment to the current track. It is easy to change if I can find a better one. Do you have one you would like to suggest?

2. Elevator, why does the elevator first go down a bit before going up?

It serves several purposes. One is to make it easier to time a lift jump. The delay also allows someone to jump down to the lower level and have time to step off the lift before it goes up. From a mechanical perspective, I think it makes the lift more interesting, like it is locked in place and must "prep" before rising.

3. I found the wind sounds to be a bit loud, it's kinda distracting.

There should not be much wind noise except near the edges of the buildings and during the jumps. Where are you hearing the loud wind? There is the sound of distant traffic that permeates most of the level. Perhaps that is what you are hearing. Like the music, this is an easy change that I can still make before final release... assuming I know what to change.

4. The layout feels rather flat to me and there could be a little more variation to the color of the map (it's pretty much all gray, while the outdoor parts probably has to be grayish. The indoor parts doesn't)

Yes, in retrospect, I would have liked to exploit Z-axis opportunities a little more, and I could have created more subtle variation in floor heights/textures, but I'm still pretty happy with what's there.

I think the map is as colorful as most non-fantasy themed maps. I'd still like to have more color variation, though doing so in this style of map can be a little tricky. I'm sure I could improve it given time, but that's a little much to bite off at this point. I'll just have to keep it in mind for future work.

Woops, forgot 1 thing. Could use a lens flare for the sun, atm the sun is about as bright as the rest of the skydome.

The sun is already 100% white, so it cannot really get any brighter. I agree that a lens flare could increase the impression of brightness. It's just a matter of doing it in a way that is not overly exaggerated. I'm trying to keep the effects subtle and realistic for this map.

 

1. Personally I would use the music from "A_Music_Outpost" I think it's the one used in Epic's DM-Defiance.

2. Ah, good point.

3. Hmm yes, probably the traffic sound.

4. It's tough to get a lot of Z-axis with a map of this type and about the color, the outside area feels very realistic but the indoor, you've placed a few light actors that would light up their surrounding area with a strong orange color however it feels like they don't emit any lighting at all.

5. I'd say using a subtle lens flare would increase the realism, but yes it should definitely be subtle. Minor detail though :)

yooo superalgae i finally found some minutes to play the map on the server

-i m not sure what wasnt working on lights with you but i had the yellow arrows working (the only lighty indicators i found on the server was thoses stock arrows

-no traffic at all

-the pp volume at the bottom is darker online and still sometimes a few seconds at respawn

-here the bot can still doing up & down for centurys in 1v1 ;)



-all the jumppads was working perfectly :p

-this map is a blast! it s a pure paradise for a flying monkey like me and even if u finish it in 30 years i ll keep my eyes on it....30 yrs lol....unreal dead friends :p

honnestly i m just impressed and like said thrallala previously we can feel how many hours was necessary for such a place

I worked on several of the issues and suggestions this weekend.

____________________________________________________________
First, in regard to the items that Thrallala mentioned...

I like the "Outpost" music, but it does not seem to fit the map. Outpost has a Tribal sound, but I am looking for something more contemporary. Maybe Mech8 would work well. However, I may be too buried in the map to judge well. If others want to chime in, then I'll go with the general consensus.

I reduced the traffic sound. I think this is all around better. It lets the other sounds of the map come through more, and UT3's traffic sounds are not that great anyway.

I made the orange lights in the Radio Building put off a stronger light. They are intentionally dimmer than the other lights (notice how the mesh is barely bright enough to bloom), but I agree that they were actually too subtle before.

I added a stronger bloom/corona to the sun, gave it more of a golden hue, and gave it some very subtle animated rays. I also added a slight lens flare.

____________________________________________________________
Regarding Bl!tz's feedback and the issues with kismet.

To approximate an online game, I am recording demos and replaying them. Demo playback seems to be a good test of what issues will appear online. Based on this, I think I have the traffic kismet working by just turning off the client-only flag. I still don't know why the powerup lights do not work, but I did find that other maps like DM-1on1-Paradox have the same problem. I made a post about it at http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?p=27284576#post27284576.

I looked into the bot issue and tried to make some changes to help, but there is a limit to what I can do about it. I think UT3's bots are just not that smart sometimes. Stock maps like DM-ShangriLa seem to have the same issue.

____________________________________________________________

The main thing holding me up from release is the kismet issue with the powerup lights. The lights are not critical, but they are supposed to help casual players compete with people that time powerups, so it misses the point if they do not work online.

Once I get this resolved, I'll post an updated version on this forum for a last verification. Once that is done, then I'll call it final and post it on BU/Epic as well.

Thanks all for your feedback and help.

Okay, first off, I feel rather silly. I had not been able to find the option to proscribe paths and was just using careful node placement to minimize issues. Then once you mentioned it, I went back to the editor and found the option in about 5 seconds.

That said, DM-ShangriLa has very minimalistic pathing but has similar issues with the bots sometimes getting hung up when they need to jump. I'll proscribe unnecessary paths because it is a good idea, but I'm not getting my hopes up that it will prevent this issue.

BTW, do you know how to make the editor hide proscribed paths rather than just making them red?

Thanks for the help.

Bl!tz wrote:

---

even players will double jump several times to do a double jump;the jump is just not enough powerfull if u "touch" what u want to jump on...i bet that bots are not enough cerebral to go 10 cm back to do the jump

---

I think you give the bots too much credit.  :)  These jumps are low enough to easily make while touching the pillar you want to jump on. Regardless, I might have found a way to get the bots to work by using a slightly angled (almost vertical) blocking volume. Now I just need to see if I can do that without hurting the navigation for human players.

On a different topic, I have come to the conclusion that kismet's actions for setting Material Instance params are just plain broken. They do not work online. DM-CarbonFire even has the same issue. However, I think I can get it to work by using a MIC actor and Matinee.

Cool,

Will try RC4 tonight.

But why don't you post it on BU ? The more the better no ?

stevelois wrote:

---

Cool,

Will try RC4 tonight.

But why don't you post it on BU ? The more the better no ?

---

Since the changes versus RC3 are small and limited to things discussed on this forum, I thought posting an update on BU would just create unnecessary noise. My thread has been there so long that surely I've squeezed out almost all the feedback I'm going to get.  :)

I'll test this build on Bl!tz's server, and if it looks solid, then maybe I'll make a quick post on BU to give people one last chance to test it out before I release.

yo jesse; it s installed and i just have reboot it; i ll probably give it a go later myself....if i can finish all thoses beta things i ve start in...rl...haha^^

I had a short run of RC5 on my testserver. Traffic was working.

BTW didn't have much time to test it today, but what I have seen so far: really cool map.

Damn, I just dwn RC4 & now RC5 is here !

Dude, your eating all my broadband bandwidth with your map LOL

ok it s installed and i just have reboot the server on the map ;)

Thrallala,

Other than the bug fixes, most of the changes since RC3 are based on your feedback...

• Changed music (to Mech8).
• Reduced traffic sounds.
• Made the orange lights emit a stronger color. (I'd like to go even stronger maybe, but the color is already as saturated as possible.)
• Added bloom/rays and lens flare to the sun.

What do you think of the changes? As you say, it is largely personal preference, but it would be good to know if my modifications are on target or not.

And thanks for the help. The changes are small, but I feel they are a definite improvement to the map.

I finally play the RC5.

I must agreed that the music track fit better indeed. Still I like the one before, it was a good one but this one seem to fit roof top more

Only thing that need a tad more work is the lens flare that look somehow pixelized. I mean that you can see some square in the flare like the material miss some dept

Except that minor thing, absolute great job Jesse

BTW, the readme is also very detailed (many THX for the credits ). I suggest you add your UOF thread along BU / 3DBuzz & also, put the install info on above the map description because install first, play after & read more info if required only in the end

Yep, you understand perfectly what I meant about the flare.

Just a little thing that I forgot to post from my last comments, in fact I always forgot to mention it since RC1...

I suggest you delay the sound between the signing bird a bit. It's quite annoying to ear them signing like that without any pause. I didn't check the map in the editor so I dunno if you use a simple sound or a group sound (sorry, I forgot the right terms lol). Please add a delay so it will feel much more natural.

In DM-Aly (in case you want to ear what I mean), the average delay is 2 or 3 seconds between each sound. It's more natural, less irritating.

The final is gonna be something :D

Regarding the birds, I have a SoundCue that randomly plays one of 10 sounds. The delay (from the finish of one sound to the start of the next) is randomly between 8 an 20 seconds. However, there is a corresponding AmbientSound in each of the eight large trees, so when the player is in range of all the AmbientSound actors the average gap is more like 1 or 2 seconds (sometimes more but sometimes actually overlapping). I will increase the delay, reduce the radius, and/or reduce the number of AmbientSound actors.

There are also some insect sounds (emanating from the few places with grass). I take it those are okay?

On another topic, have you noticed that when playing offline games, your first spawn is always in the same location? And the really strange thing is that it's not even the first (lowest numbered) playerstart. In DM-HardFall it's PlayerStart_17 (inside the radio building). It doesn't make a big difference, but I might try swapping that one with another playerstart.

Just a little suggestion about multiple SoundCue.

Don't forget that some players play the game without the music track so footstep / ambient sounds is very important for immersion & can be more annoying that anything else if it's overdone.

I would suggest only use 6 soundcues max on the big building & reduce there radius to obtain the best results & placing them in 2 rows like this (note the yellow circle are the sound location & the green circle there radius) :

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/833/exemplet.jpg

You can set the delay to 2-3 secs between each sound. 5 secs or more is imo much to long. By adjusting your sounds that way ;

- When the player will be located near the threes at the beginning / end of the row, he will ear something instead of waiting 10 secs so the immersion won't be lost or go in / out.

- When players will be located between the trees, sounds will be ear from each side & provide the effect that birds are taking to each other from trees to trees (like a stereo effect) instead of talking all together at the same time. It give an impression that they talk / call each other.

Again, I've done that in DM-Aly.

I notice that when I played (offline with 10 players total) I often spawn near the stinger / link / bio. I rarely spawn near the flack / rocket launcher / shock. It's not an issue, only something I notice to say that my spawning points aren't the same as yours.

-- Edited by stevelois on Monday 17th of May 2010 04:30:50 PM

I finally got some time to play a little.
This is certainly a map to watch...First class so far.
I like the layout and the backdrop.
I think breaking up the floor material would help as its a bit repetitive. Also while playing old and new just seemed to stand out to me. Like it doesnt fit together.

Overall good job mate. Very nice.

Hey mate... Your welcome, im sorry im so late.

For the old new thing. I think it was the HU pillars and stuff, they seem to have an old rusty look compared with the ASC textures that look just built.
Its not a big thing and im sure its just me. It kinda stood out for me if you know what i mean.

Yep mate.
A little moss or discoloring would blend perfect and not stand out.
BTW a little of that on your floor would kill the repetitive i mentioned too.

Again im sorry im so late but i hope it helps.

I gave the floors a little texture variation to make them less repetitive. The variation is most pronounced for the floor of the inner corridor. I gave some similar discoloration to the yellow-brick planters (ASC textures) to make them blend with the rest of the building better. Here are some screenshots.



-- Edited by SuperAlgae on Tuesday 8th of June 2010 06:58:27 AM

Thanks.

Regarding the floor textures, I made the color variation just enough to help camouflage repeating of the texture. Some bolder areas of moss or stains might be nice, but I would need to use something like meshes or projectors to more selectively place that. I'm not sure I want that much change at this late stage, so I stuck with just a slight variation in the texture itself. I may try something more, but I don't want to spend too much time on it, and I want to avoid rebuilding BSP lighting.

Nice touch m8 :)

Honestly, roof top like that look more accurately when they look clean specially in your theme when there is no damage nowhere & the scenery is light.

Leaving it subtle is great or else it wouldn't fit. I didn't mind your previous floor look or else as Diesalot I would mention you need to add some textures to brake the tiling but since it was good looking anyway I didn't comment on that since to be constant you would had to make the other floors look like that.

In any case, it look good m8 :)

Only 1 week before final :D

I like the moss mate, but as steve said he liked the clean look.

Its YOUR map choose whatever YOU like