CTF-Maelstrom (Private Test)

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

CTF-Maelstrom (Private Test)

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

booyah bro

i tryed it with "just a run for the fun" idea in mind....but...dunno if it s my rig again but it play horrible here with monstrodrop downs :
frames:2883
time:60s
min:15
max:110
Avg:47.217

shame because the map is totally my kind of stuff; visually it have strong contrasts and old style....nice job
some details are superb; i like the cristal holes with the grid and that iced pic at the top
the map play really good but was just unplayable with "normal" settings...srry....
i prefer to tell you because i know this map will be played online ;)

other detail i havent succed to get the prview pict and the map infosq displayed with map mixer and the map appear under the letter "c" in the listing aka ctf-malstroem and not under "m"

for the rest excellent job mate

thx for ur work and for taking the time to explain how n why u post betas here or there
i m not gonna vote because i dont know what was ur fps rendering target ;)

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Thanks for testing.

Haha, um OK, i play on max details, (everything maxed) no SLI, and i tested it on 6 separate machines some fairly slow (1 an old Pentium D) and it ran fine on all of them. In fact it ran as good if not better than some retail maps.

Dunno what to tall ya bro. - Shame to have a report like that come in after knowing i tested it thoroughly on a variety of hardware with out problems.

You playing on your laptop again Uncle Bl!tz .. lol (J/K) i know better than that.

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Come to think of it, you refuse to play with V-sync correct Blitz?

That could be part of it, all the machines i tested it on use V-Sync which smooths the frames.

If i turned it off i might hit 300 frames in some area's and then experience some slow downs in others.

All the machines i tested it on held a stead 60 FPS.

Thrallala · Level Designer

Downloading now, however Tele2 decided to limit my internet connection since I downloaded too much so it will take an hour to download xP, I will get back to you later

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

i have to go to take the tea to my gran mum house and i ll re test tonite :p i think vsynch is off^^

stevelois · ...

Visuals are great bro biggrin

I'll try to play tonight since your in the hurry to publish the final very soon.

Looking at the pics, the only thing that look out of place imho is the Necris trims. All the other assets & lighting is great looking smile Honestly, I prefer to say it instead of stay silent.

Later.

Thrallala · Level Designer

Ait played it!

I love the map but there are some things I would definitely change so here goes:

1. When I start the map there are some UT voices and stuff going on before the music starts, I found these very unnecessary and annoying (please note that I haven't played the UT99 version of the map)

2. While most areas are well lit, some areas are pretty close to pitch black

Roof = black

Terrain = almost pitch black

the holder for this lantern = black and the trim is much much brighter, looks wierd :P

The entrence here is completely black

3. Outside the flag bases there are walls with rocks on them, I suggest using blocking volumes here so you can walk against the wall without being stopped by the rocks.

4. The water material (Udmg cave and other places) is way too blue and looks very unrealistic :P

5. You have some blue crystals placed within the map, If I where you I would use a custom material for these and having them brighter so they can be used to lit up the environment around them more.

6. In the mid area, you have different materials on the surrounding rocks, the thing is. 1 of the materials is pretty much white while the other material is very dark.

7. These small rocks by the floor have that wierd collision they always do, you should use som blocking volumes so people dont get stuck on them

8. Very minor thing probably just me but well, when I see this mesh the first word that comes to mind is elevator since it's almost always used as that.

9. The bars (I think thats the word) have a wierd material, I'd use something with a normal map like rock instead

10. The bright gray material used as floor in the flag bases looks kinda out of place I dunno why, could be the color.

Other than the lighting issues, I see only minor things that could use some improvements.

Oh and the fps is fine, 40-60 for me with no noticable drops, a little less than in epics maps but it's not by much so it's good.

Diesalot · Drinker of too much beer

Hey mate.

Nice looking map, i havent played it yet but i ran through in the ED.

I dont want to repeat whats been mentioned already, but i have 1 or 2 points.

While the bases are well lit there doesnt seem to be enough light sources.

I do agree with the water material, unrealistic looking.

This material is way overstretched...

M01.jpg.opt656x437o0,0s656x437.jpg

And here you can still see the water sheet, It just needs covered a little more...

M02.jpg.opt656x437o0,0s656x437.jpg

-- Edited by Diesalot on Wednesday 10th of March 2010 07:08:35 PM

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

@Bl!tz, Thx again for the feedback :) sounds good, yeah dunno if you can try with V-sync or not, would be interesting to see what it does on your rig. Hey dude that's very cool that you can visit your grandma, I sure miss my grandparents (and my dad) :(

@Thrallala

Glad you like it!

1. The audio track has been remixed as you know (We wont enjoy a version of Skyward Fire like that anywhere else) I can see how you might not like the announer & the short additioinal intro, i actually like it though and it goes hand in hand with the remix, I'll probably keep it unless others really dislike it.

2. The original map was very very dark, (disgustingly dark, lol) I've brightened the map up considerably but i'm not going to make it ultra bright, we're in a cave here and it's nighttime. The terrain is intentionally dark, though i'll see if i can find a satisfying compromise to lighten it up slightly. Which lantern holder? - I'll look them all over, (one might not accept lights) if so it should be corrected though otherwise the majority of them are intentionally dark because i don't want to draw attention to them.

3. I'm unable to reproduce an issue of getting stuck on the rocks in the walls you mentioned, in fact before added the rocks i had some weird collision issues that would hang players up on certain corners that the rocks seemed to help with, i did have some collision issues on walls in the lower path to the watercave where the stairs lead down and around the corner, i used blocking volumes to solve that issue, but in the bases i can't justify because i can't get stuck on the rocks even when i try to drive hard against them. (around corners and such)

4. RE: water: the water is intentionally blue, - it's still transparent and has a reflection & realistic motion though hopefully (the original Maelstrom had very blue water) I'll probably let that ride.

5. Duly noted. (Not sure if i'll do that or not)

6. Done Intentional, this is a semi-frozen subterranean setting, for me (and since i'm the author) i'm quite satisfied with the variations and visual flow of the rocks.

7. There is no collision on the small rocks, it's going to be hard to get stuck.

8. Screen? if not no worries. haha.

9. Most likely a matter of personal taste more than anything - i'll probably 'let it ride'. (anyone remember that song from BTO?)

10. I've actually thought that too, TBH i couldn't find anything to work better, tried a variety of different things, it surely needs to be accented because it defines the important areas on floors, those meshes won't accept many materials very well so that's part of the problem, I'll take another fast look but i can't make any promises if i can do better bro.

Glad the FPS is good for ya, thank you for the detailed constructive feedback.

@Stevelois, Absolutely appreciate you saying what's on your mind, maybe we can twist your arm a little on the trim (it's a natural setting though fortified for the Tourney "constructed/built by the Necris faction" if that helps) TBH Personally i think the trim is fine and fits the map. (i'm not just saying that because i used it) check it in game and see what you think.

As far as i'm concerned it was good enough for final, (probably better than 95% of the majority of finals) though i'm willing to adjust some things so no urgent rush. Oh yeah and when does Necris trim fit? (or look 'in' place) lol. Don't answer that (only a joke of course) Thx for the feedback. :)

@Diesalot

I agree with you about the scaling in your first pick, (that same thing crossed my mind at one point) since someone else mention this i think i'll certainly make an adjustment with that issue.

I'll take a very close look at that waterfall sheet as well, perhaps i can lower it just a tad further under the rocks. Thanks for the feedback.

I'll wait to hear from the other guys and see what i can do here to update this and perhaps release it over the weekend.

-- Edited by 1xTrEmE on Wednesday 10th of March 2010 10:49:37 PM

Thrallala · Level Designer

Again about the darkness of the map, I agree it should be dark. But as it is now you have some bright areas and other areas I can't see anything in. Gameplay will suffer quite a bit if players can't see sometimes where as the bots can. And @ the terrain, the terrain itself is very very dark but then there are things on the terrain that are considerably brighter and it doesn't make sense :P

About the water, water textures in UT99 where much different than in UT3 and I still believe you should make it look more realistic and less blue (the blue color makes it seem like it's team colored).

About the missing screenshot, dont worry about it. It was only a very minor thing :P

And what I don't like about the announcer in the start is why it's there, it's just random sounds, it's about as bad as adding a big fat clan logo in a map imo :P

Oh and while I noted that some areas are too dark, some parts of the map are also too bright. As it is now it's Very Bright vs Pitch Black where as it should probably be closer to the same brightness everywhere (not like only having a 1.0 skylight but not one area where it's 3.0 bright and the next area 0.2 bright), I'm not that good at writing in english so I can't really make it any clearer than that :P

I also agree with diesalot, you should probably add more light sources so there aren't any areas that are too dark.

Diesalot · Drinker of too much beer

NP for the feedback mate. Always try to help. ashamed

I seen the trim thing Elder Uncle mentioned and although i dont have a problem with it, i had one other point i forgot. In the center of the map, the underground part, it didnt fit there for me. Also in there it seemed very undetailed. It seemed almost like an afterthought.

I will try to play soon and feedback on gameplay. Keep it up Old Fart. biggrin

stevelois · ...

Lot's of feedback as already been given this is great buddy biggrin

Dunno what else I'll be able to add after all that confuse

Anyway, will play it in few mins & look around. Will comments if I found things that hasn't been comment yet.

Later smile

-- Edited by stevelois on Wednesday 10th of March 2010 11:42:32 PM

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

ok i have some fps results with & without sli and V-Sync:

SLI off+V-Sync off:
frame:2759
time:60
mini:25
maxi:82
avg:45.983

SLI off+V-Sync on:
frame:3251
time:60
mini:26
maxi:130
avg:54.183

SLI on+V-Sync off:
frame:2731
time:60
mini:12
maxi:91
avg:45.517

SLI on+V-Sync on:
frame:3194
time:60
mini:16
maxi:106
avg:53.233

i had the same problem with thrallala s last CTF :(

it s apparently related to a bug/uncompatibility between NVidia SLI gpus and some settings & textures.....for now it only happened on thoses two maps

stevelois · ...

So did a round against 9 adept bots, wow, that was to much lol

First, in the menu before loading the map "CTF-***" appear instead of just the map name.

For other things,

I really like the visuals & construction. It's all well put together. To answer about the Necris trims, they do fit well in Necris theme maps but I must admit it's the first time I see Necris assets mixed with rocks & Liandry assets in that way. Your materials are also well made.

Based on your previous post, since you see this map already final & aren't very willing to enhance it more except if it's a huge bug which I didn't encounter, I'll be very brief & post tiny things I would do if I where in your pants. Note that I didn't check the map in the editor so some points may be related to collisions &/or BV & I don't remember the original :

- In the flag room, check your meshes collisions / BV around the doors, you can see through the meshes.
- In the sniper room, playerstart need to be a bit rotated because I was facing between the wall & the entrance when spawning there.
- Also, check your meshes in the corners, there overlapping.
- In the flak cave, most rock meshes on the ground are above it, they need to be lowered. There floating a bit.
- Beside the underground entrance & the base entrance, there is a huge rock, collisions seem to be problematic with bots & the rock is to big imo.
- In the cave, near the powerup, there is a waterfall sound that is to loud.
- The powerup is cool but imho unfair in this tight map. TBH, I would replace it with the invisibility.
- I do love the colors / lighting in this map, but the water is to blue. I had the same prob in Aly when I tired to set the water color blue enough to look nice without being to much. In your case, the color is very nice but I think it's the opacity that is to much. Just a thought.
- There is 2 materials that I found rather washed out, not on par with the rest of the map. First, the exterior wall of the base & the material applied on the white / greyish rocks on the ground.

Gameplay wise,

I feel the flag room is overpowered (50 armor + 100 health + 2 weapons + ammo) while the middle of the map which is wide opened only have 50 armors that won't worth the risk since your exposed to the sniper / flack alternate fire guy + only 2*25 health. It encourage the player to take even more the cave route. I would feel more comfortable to use the middle of the map if there was more ammo, vials &/or another weapon.

So that's it. I do like the visuals & the dynamic of the map. Hope it help.

-- Edited by stevelois on Thursday 11th of March 2010 01:13:00 AM

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

I've given the map a try now! smile

Visuals are great! biggrin

Love the custom textures as well M8!

I've never played the original and I'll say it's quite a fun map! A good size for some intense games and It's also a great size for Greed as well!

I liked the use of portals, so top marks on that!

Regarding issues, I had none except for some of the lighting myself.

First is the BSP terrain. Thralalla is correct in that it is very dark and there appears to be no shadows cast on it. I've actually looked at it in the editor and I can't figure out why it won't light up. I'd actually recommend slapping a layer of proper terrain over the top of it which will get the shadows you need plus allow you to make it slightly uneven making it more realistic.

There's a heap of brownish lights that have a radius of 1600. I'd say shrink the radius in most cases and let your other lighting take over to give more variance!

Next is a few of your meshes don't have good shadowing. Fortunately this is an easy fix.
Go into the mesh properties. In the last section at the bototm there's an "override lightmap resolution" option.
Untick this then enter a value into the resolution field below it, like 32. (remember that with meshes the higher the value the better, unlike BSP which is opposite)
This will get the shadows you need to make them look a lot better!

Fortunately your resource usage for lightmaps is around 12meg atm so you can increase the lightmap rez on both a heap of BSP and meshes if you want. Just avoid going over 30meg to keep the map safe for PS3 folk.

Just 3 examples of some lighting issues below:

The mesh at the back there isn't lit by the red lighting making it look weird. Try that override option to hopefully fix it. Otherwise let the pickup light, light the alcove.

Flames here I think should be lighting up the wall but they aren't. Chuck a nice orange light above the fire and also lower the 1600 raduis lights so they don't override the fire lighting.

The flames here should light up the nearby stairs etc.. I'd turn off "cast shadows" on the wooden box and increase the fire light radius. Also up the lightmap rez on the stairs, down to about 8, so the fire lights them up nicely. Some of the 1600 raduis lights are located in the fires here. You can also see how dark the terrain is here as well.

Hope the above helps you out M8! smile

As I said, the custom stuff you've made is great! I can't wait to see Rainbase!

Thrallala · Level Designer

Oh, I forgot 1 thing, very small thing but takes only a few seconds to fix.

In the ctf-maelstrom.ini file, replace "NumPlayers= Recommended Players: 4 to 10" with "NumPlayers=4 to 10"

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Bl!tz wrote:
ok i have some fps results with & without sli and V-Sync:
--SNIP--

i had the same problem with thrallala s last CTF :(

it s apparently related to a bug/uncompatibility between NVidia SLI gpus and some settings & textures.....for now it only happened on thoses two maps

Thx for those results B! I guess that means that Thral & i are part of an elite club now..

To address that i'll probably open his map in the editor and see if i can find a similarity. It's not going to go undressed don't worry bro, i think it is specific to SLI though because if i can take a Pentium D (Extreme edition 3.8 Ghz) and those processors suck believe me .. a C2D @2.4 Ghz will run circles around it all day long, and an old Radeon 3850 and have it hold steady 50-60 frames then i know its not a complete hog of a map. ;)

@ Stevelois I'm going to answer your post in detail when i have more time, i've already said that i'm going to modify the map and probably release it sometime over the weekend (guess you missed that) so no worries, i'm going to make minor amendments & adjustments where i can bro, as i say i'll answer your post better shortly, i'm messed up here on my response order and working backwards.

stevelois · ...

@LPS

Just a thought reading your feedback about the dark terrain so it may help 1extreme, if I remember your using the "vivid" pp effect setting which make the dark colors look even darker because the terrain look nice on my rig on "default" PP setting.

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

I'm using the Intese setting PP. I did change it to default but it made little difference unfortunately.

Thrallala · Level Designer

1xTrEmE wrote:

Bl!tz wrote:
ok i have some fps results with & without sli and V-Sync:
--SNIP--

i had the same problem with thrallala s last CTF :(

it s apparently related to a bug/uncompatibility between NVidia SLI gpus and some settings & textures.....for now it only happened on thoses two maps
Thx for those results B! I guess that means that Thral & i are part of an elite club now..

Oh yeah, our club is totally awesome. What do you think we should call it? I'm thinkin "NO maps for Blitz!" :D

stevelois · ...

ROFL !!!

What a club LOL

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Thrallala wrote:

Again about the darkness of the map, I agree it should be dark. But as it is now you have some bright areas and other areas I can't see anything in. Gameplay will suffer quite a bit if players can't see sometimes where as the bots can. And @ the terrain, the terrain itself is very very dark but then there are things on the terrain that are considerably brighter and it doesn't make sense :P

About the water, water textures in UT99 where much different than in UT3 and I still believe you should make it look more realistic and less blue (the blue color makes it seem like it's team colored).

About the missing screenshot, dont worry about it. It was only a very minor thing :P

And what I don't like about the announcer in the start is why it's there, it's just random sounds, it's about as bad as adding a big fat clan logo in a map imo :P

Oh and while I noted that some areas are too dark, some parts of the map are also too bright. As it is now it's Very Bright vs Pitch Black where as it should probably be closer to the same brightness everywhere (not like only having a 1.0 skylight but not one area where it's 3.0 bright and the next area 0.2 bright), I'm not that good at writing in english so I can't really make it any clearer than that :P

I also agree with diesalot, you should probably add more light sources so there aren't any areas that are too dark.

First of all..

You speak very very good English, especially it being your 2nd language, I really admire and respect you and the other guys and the excellent job you all do to break the language barrier & bring us all together for a greater cause!

OK no i understand what your saying on the lighting, we want it to have some contrast and not look too uniform, but it has to be balanced also, not too bright or too dark. - With that in mind, i can say on the lighting that some materials are darker than others there are black rocks in the earth and darker soil, some rocks and mineral deposits are even naturally lit up.

I want the map somewhat dark and didn't want the terrain lighting it up too much, but i don't want to compensate and throw other stuff off that way, i had noticed also it was quite dark, i'll compromise and lighten it some (see if i can find a good balance)

As far as the water, it's true in UT99 water textures were much different, but so was everything else .. haha. I'll have to give this some more thought, i know what you mean about realism, but i also like some crystal blue water as well, it's like the Oceans of the Pacific they are murky, green and dark or hazy, while the Caribbean waters are very bluish and crystallized . I'll give this some more though and see what others say.

As far as the bases do you guys mean in the halls with the stone walls or in the flag rooms? FYI there are a bunch of hidden (hidden in editor) lights in the flag rooms, i do that sometimes to get stuff out of my sight while editing to avoid visual obstructions, note the pathnodes are also all hidden.

On the intro (announcer) I know you don't like it but its an audio thing and not a visual thing that you'd have to look at over and over, it starts, lasts briefly then ends, ironically i sent this map to a couple of friends on Epic as well, one responded and commented that they like that intro (the wicked sick part, from UT2004) being a cool twist. I asked them to post their feedback in the final thread since they aren't able to access this area. I'll keep an open mind of course though always bro.

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Guys i found some alignment problems with the textures on the stone wall that separates the base. Haha now you guys have me scrutinizing this map with microscope & a fine tooth comb.

No worries guys we'll get this baby dialed in all the way, no need to stop just short of the finish line.

Already fixed that (wall textures) .. 1x.

Brightened terrain up a bit .. Thral.

Rescaled foliage texture in Red Base cave .. Dies

Slightly adjusted second stage waterfall mesh (lowered) .. Dies.

Fixed map name .. Bl!tz & Thral

Fixed player count .. Thral.

Joined a club .. (Booya!)

Still compiling / working the list guys .. :D

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Diesalot wrote:
NP for the feedback mate. Always try to help.

I seen the trim thing Elder Uncle mentioned and although i dont have a problem with it, i had one other point i forgot. In the center of the map, the underground part, it didnt fit there for me. Also in there it seemed very undetailed. It seemed almost like an afterthought.

I will try to play soon and feedback on gameplay. Keep it up Old Fart.

Sounds good Dies, I'll have a look at that, at one point i almost did a rock edge like in the stream under the waterfall, I'll have to see if i can take that one on timewise, other wise that trim is probably better than no trim. I almost added some foliage down there and then got to thinking na its the bottom of a cave that wouldn't work. With the water though i guess i could on the path at least?

Thrallala · Level Designer

Sounds great, yeah you shouldn't change stuff you like the way they are :) I love the map anyway!

and yeah, NO maps for Blitz! club is awesome

I wonder if more people will join, maybe even Blitz if you manage to screw over SLI in your maps :D, i'll let you have my custom materials from CTF-Eternity! (the ones that may be the cause of the SLI bug)

-- Edited by Thrallala on Thursday 11th of March 2010 02:05:51 AM

Diesalot · Drinker of too much beer

ROFL at monkey...my Old fart GPU works better than both of yours....

MMMUUUUHHHHAHHHHhhhh

I also seen what you mean about alignment 1X. Some of the archways need aligned.

I hope thats what you seen too evileye

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

@LPS

Glad you like it for the most part.

I'm going to brighten up the BSP terrain, As far as adding a layer of Terrain, it's a good suggestion but i wont take that on because i don't have the terrain experience and i'm not going to have this map as my learning experience, everything else is done to at high level of skill, i'm not willing to take my very lowly to none Terrain skill and trash the map, lol maybe on one of my next maps i'll get more into terrain.

I can actually re-enable the red light on that mesh, i deliberately turned off some dynamic lighting effects because that flag area being as condensed as it is, i didn't want it overwhelmed with Red, same thing in both bases of course.

RE: Brown lights .. Good catch, I'll lower the radius on the lights at the torches, there are only 4 with that radius everything is i use lighting wise is usually between anywhere from 30 through not usually more than 512. If you think there are more it's probably the multiple hidden skylights with dedicated lighting channels, i've actually managed to do some really trick things with the lighting on this map, it might be hard to appreciate it all but that's to be expected no 2 systems look alike. Also bro, i will not overcompensate for lighting with PP effects like others try to do, then the map looks like compelte crap when those few people who play without bloom come along. See what i'm saying?

I too thought about a radiant light from the ground fire, then i got to thinking it should filcker and i knew that would destroy performance so i skipped it, but come to think of it the rest of the radiant glow from flames isn't flickering so whats one more going to hurt? even though that camp fire is a different type of flame than the torches i think your right it should be fine. I especially know someone is spot on with feedback if its something i considered as well but for what ever reason (either forgot or chickened out) elected to drop it out of production.

I think your 100% correct on the torches affecting the stairs and nearby trim,another good catch, it will be implemented. I'll compile an entire list of fixes and changes and post in the first thread over the coming day or so.

Thanks you! and yes your feedback certainly helps greatly.

@ Stevelois, i'm trying to mulitask, (eat dinner, i did my work out while i fixed a few things in between sets, answering posts) and I have the usual dozen windows open .. Sigh .. lol - i'll address your post here shortly bro.

@ Dies, yeah i think we're on the same page, that entire wall had various alignment issues hidden all over, i had to do some BSP skinning in several areas because there was no way to make it all jive, making 1 thing right threw another off. DOH! haha. - Hey hows the baby girl doing? My best regards to you and your fam bro.

@ Thral, its a very elite club we've established .. as a fellow co-founder i say we let some of the other guys join if the can learn the secret map trick which lets us bomb certain maps. Haha .. Glad you like the map, that's great to hear.

I'll BB in a while guys.

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

stevelois wrote:
So did a round against 9 adept bots, wow, that was to much lol

First, in the menu before loading the map "CTF-***" appear instead of just the map name. Yup, that's being corrected gotcha covered bro. ;)

For other things,

I really like the visuals & construction. It's all well put together. To answer about the Necris trims, they do fit well in Necris theme maps but I must admit it's the first time I see Necris assets mixed with rocks & Liandry assets in that way. Your materials are also well made.
Ho .. I'm quite glad this map is receiving such a positive reception for the most part, (especially considering how easy it is to pick something apart - sometimes even for grins and kicks) haha - makes my hours and willingness to share this with the public worthwhile, i made this map for our LAN thing we do on weekends sometimes, we sorely missed this map so i was put to the task.

Based on your previous post, since you see this map already final & aren't very willing to enhance it more except if it's a huge bug which I didn't encounter, I'll be very brief & post tiny things I would do if I where in your pants. Note that I didn't check the map in the editor so some points may be related to collisions &/or BV & I don't remember the original :

- In the flag room, check your meshes collisions / BV around the doors, you can see through the meshes.
I know but it's better than getting hung up on the trim bro, playability is extremely crucial in this tight fast pace map, when we usually play we use the Instagib mutator and fast dodging and good moves make or break you, especially playing against bots on Inhuman (dedicated server setting of 7) one night we played 5 vs 5 against bots and went into more than an hour of OT with a tied score, talk about a crazy match. (I wanted to give you a detailed explaination on that aspect if that's OK)

- In the sniper room, playerstart need to be a bit rotated because I was facing between the wall & the entrance when spawning there.
Good, i'll double check that thx for the heads-up!

- Also, check your meshes in the corners, there overlapping.
Are they simply overlapping or are they tearing? because they have to overlap to fit the way i want them too, i'll double check for tears.
- In the flak cave, most rock meshes on the ground are above it, they need to be lowered. There floating a bit.
Ew, good eye - will check that as well, nice catch supervisionman.
- Beside the underground entrance & the base entrance, there is a huge rock, collisions seem to be problematic with bots & the rock is to big imo.
Part of the original layout, you can dodge over the rail skip across the rock and if you time if well fall right down in the hole to the lower passage, you can also dodge from the sniper area onto the rock and do the same thing. The bots seem to get stuck on the rail trying to jump it at the wrong spot, they'll do that on both sides though i've noticed.

- In the cave, near the powerup, there is a waterfall sound that is to loud.
Do you mean a water splash sound?

- The powerup is cool but imho unfair in this tight map. TBH, I would replace it with the invisibility.
Part of the original remake deal, so it stays.

- I do love the colors / lighting in this map, but the water is to blue. I had the same prob in Aly when I tired to set the water color blue enough to look nice without being to much. In your case, the color is very nice but I think it's the opacity that is to much.
Yeah the water is very blue, i do like it though, i may tweak it some.
Just a thought.
- There is 2 materials that I found rather washed out, not on par with the rest of the map. First, the exterior wall of the base & the material applied on the white / greyish rocks on the ground.
I'm extremely satisfied with the wall material, I won't change that, TBH i think it looks slick, (we're always going to have differences of opinions on what color to paint our houses) - There are a lot of greyish rocks on the ground some are more crystallized than others not sure which ones your referring to.

Gameplay wise,

I feel the flag room is overpowered (50 armor + 100 health + 2 weapons + ammo) while the middle of the map which is wide opened only have 50 armors that won't worth the risk since your exposed to the sniper / flack alternate fire guy + only 2*25 health. It encourage the player to take even more the cave route. I would feel more comfortable to use the middle of the map if there was more ammo, vials &/or another weapon.

So that's it. I do like the visuals & the dynamic of the map. Hope it help.

-- Edited by stevelois on Thursday 11th of March 2010 01:13:00 AM

I won't ad any other weapons because i think the original design that had this configuration was just right, (just a thought) the map was played on worldogl.com & provinggrounds.com in competition quite heavily as it was, something must have been right because unfair or over powered maps weren't really played much. I'd be willing to compromise with some additional health vials or so, i'll mull it over.

Thank you for your feedback bro.

P.S. my reports from a few friends on Epic are trickling back in slowly, just so you guys know, very positive input and results so far also, I'm glad i can be able to show quality work and reinforce the fact that we have a highly talented group here @UOF, the community is in store for a nice pack indeed.

@Lord - almost forgot to say thx that you mention CTF-Rainbase, I'll do us right on that don't worry bros, also considering that map is for our pack, i'm inclined to make sure all of us are quite satisfied / pleased with the final.

Diesalot · Drinker of too much beer

Remember 1X. Its your map. This is advice and not what you HAVE to do or it wont be yours anymore.

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Diesalot wrote:

Remember 1X. Its your map. This is advice and not what you HAVE to do or it wont be yours anymore.

That's golden Dies. Very well said. As i go down this list of things, i'll keep that in mind.

Sometimes we need a reminder of what you just said. Thx for that Dies.

stevelois · ...

@1x

Hey bud, just to answer few questions you ask me, about :

"- Also, check your meshes in the corners, there overlapping.

Are they simply overlapping or are they tearing? because they have to overlap to fit the way i want them too, i'll double check for tears."

I don't know the difference between the words. I can say, in spec mode, place yourself in the middle of the sniper room & look the corners, you'll see the horizontal trims that overlap or tearing in the corner.

And the rock on the ground that use the washed out material are the one in the Flack cave for an example, it look like pale grey. The material used on the rock in the cavern is one thousand time better, not comparable smile

For the water sound that was to loud, I don't know if it was the splash or something else but is was coming from the waterfall confuse

And as Dies said, it's your map so take what is satisfy you in all those suggestions wink

Good thing you got some feedback from Epic dudes already. Keep it up buddy, it's a great map your gonna publish soon biggrin

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

club?...****!....blitz pc... the ultimate limit....rofl...no no no let me cry!...i m gonna play on my lappy to grab some fps....buhuhuhuhu....+.+

Diesalot · Drinker of too much beer

Just a little clear up.
I think elder uncle means overlapping as when two meshes are fighting to be seen. They kind of flicker. smile

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Guys a new version will be uploaded with in the next couple/few hours. (Depending on how well my crappy connection cooperates)

I've addressed many of the concerns. I'll write up a list as well when i have a little more time.

Be back in a bit.

lol @Bl!tz .. (don't cry for us Argentina) haha glad you have your laptop to fall back on ..

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

After reading your first post, I wasn't going to post my feedback as I didn't find any "major issues". But after skimming the thread, since others gave their 2 cents, I didn't want to feel left out. hmm

So here is my feedback, for what it's worth.

Given that you are ready to release the map, I understand if you don't implement any of my suggestions. The map looks good and runs very well. My suggestions are more geared towards polishing the map a bit (imho).

Good luck with finishing it up.

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Holy smokes that's a big PDF, Ode .. i'll be working on your suggestions i anticipate with out having even reading your feedback yet, i'll be up late tonight and i wont have the RC Final ready until tomorrow likely, (if even possible) i'm not about to skip your feedback, especially after you put your time and effort into it, thanks in advance.

P.S. Glad to hear the map runs well for you.

**EDIT**

OK just had a chance to look at your feedback. whew, Luckily about 1/2 of your suggestions have already been addressed, so i'll have less to work on and maybe get this done tonight with any luck..

Real fast.. (Great feedback!)

I'll make a list actually real fast lol, nothing going for me 'real fast' lately TBH, haha - on second thought as i begin the upload process (which takes a ridicules amount of time for me) i'll be typing the change log. Maybe sometime in a few hours with any luck or tomorrow for sure.

Sorry for the delay guys.

-- Edited by 1xTrEmE on Friday 12th of March 2010 06:24:00 AM

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

First post updated.

Sorry for the delay guys.

As soon as i get 1 or 2 replies to have a run through i'll release the final.

Thrallala · Level Designer

UT3 crashes when I load the map bleh

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

O no ..

Hrmm, i'll test it on a few other machines .. Thx for the heads up

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Mabye try rebooting and running it? FYI it ran fine on 2 other machines.

Edit..

Well i found a minor issue already .. not a map breaker but i included the old screens in the archive ..

Had the updated ones sitting in another folder close by. always something i tall ya.

Also noticed the crystals in the water cave showing default checkerboard materials on another machine, gonna test it on a few other rigs to see if it. persistent or localized.

Edit 2

LMAO, broken texture .. the Ice crystals in the small portal in the water cave, probably clicked the fallback material accidentally.

Well when i fix the screens i'll fix that, meanwhile i'll focus on the rest of the map to make sure everything else is good to go. :/

Edit 3

Yeah that's it - fallback material, well if you test that version before i get this fixed and uploaded just ignore that, i'm on it. **sigh**

-- Edited by 1xTrEmE on Saturday 13th of March 2010 06:43:39 AM

-- Edited by 1xTrEmE on Saturday 13th of March 2010 06:48:41 AM

-- Edited by 1xTrEmE on Saturday 13th of March 2010 06:53:12 AM

stevelois · ...

Didn't play the map, I only did a quick check to see if I could see some obvious little things since your in the hurry.

- Indeed, I can confirm the material in the cave is the checkerboard one.
- In the blue team flak cave, check the rock behind the flak, it doesn't reach the ground. Also, the flack weapon base is floating. A flat rock under it would be enough.
- In the blue team waterfall spot where there is some vials, lot's of rock meshes are floating (the meshes with the very green material). Also, I suggest you had something to cover the front of the meshes where the blue water material is applied because it look very weird to see a flat square blue surface in the middle of a stream.
- In the red team ground, the rock meshes around the fire on the ground are floating. The fire located at the bottom of the tights armor.
- In the red team flak cave, the grass material is looking very average & could be much more detailed.

As for the rest, I really like the map, nice improvements over the previous build bro biggrin

Don't forget the credits which none of us is mentioned in your readme wink

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

I'll pull this down tonight and will check it tonight or tomorrow!

Diesalot · Drinker of too much beer

ROFL.

1X your so supposed to make it better not worse...lol biggrin

Im DL now mate.

EDIT. No im not, you dont have a DL.

-- Edited by Diesalot on Saturday 13th of March 2010 12:52:44 PM

Thrallala · Level Designer

Ok, might just be me then.

Anyhow, if I where you I definitely wouldn't include 12 pictures in the zip file and I would not place the files in a folder when zipping them :P

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

@Stevelois, thx again eagle eye! appreciate that your always good about helping out, you are both timely and responsive, i must say also at floor level here; through these months you have earned my respect, i believe your heart is typically in the right place, (you and I share that quality) you seem to be steady and even, whereas others (on the net, not referring specifically to UOF guys) are hot & cold sometimes.

Now after that brief character explanation you bring me to my next point you made the credits .. I was going to credit all of UOF as i mention in the first post in the release thread, but since some have downloaded and not commented (and i can tell from the amount of downloads) I think i'll only mention those who helped with feedback in the readme and then i can mention all the guys in the release post, that seem fair?

@ LPS sorry for the delay .. - Should be up here shortly.

@ Dies, sorry X2 .. lol yeah when i found the fallback material i did that and was trying to get it re-uploaded and fell asleep in my chair last night :( i'll have it up shortly .. - old age is catching up with me m8 staying up late and getting up early for work seems to be taking a toll on me.

@ Thal, Have you tried to reboot and load the map again at least 1 time to see if it was a fluke?

Funny thing it didn't crash any of the machines i tested independently on last night, including a dedicated server.

Other than that it might be the fallback material who knows. I'll have a download here shortly, and maybe you can test it again? Strange it worked before & now doesn't.

As far as the screenshots, i'll remove some of them. (They are very small in file size combined so if someone includes 2 or 3 why not more? - usually someone doesn't take the time to get them ready as i have IMO, this is why we usually only see 1 or 2 at the most) Personally if i DL a map i like to see more high res / high quality shots if they are compressed right and don't bloat the DL.

@Everyone;

Guys i've been doing my best to juggle things and keep this fun, and keep it real ..

I'm glad we did this extra-testing session, (Special Thx to Thralllala for requesting it) i'm learning more about the testing process and what to look for, this was a good experience for me,

I do get quite busy sometimes in RL, between my large family, my business, and everything else on my plate, - I might not have as much time in the future as my business has been picking up i'm getting into my busy work season. As i get busier i'll need to put more of my 'unreal' spare time toward our bigger WIP and less toward my own projects.

Thrallala · Level Designer

Tried 5 times or so, even checked with other maps and only yours didn't work, but could be just me. About the screenshots, it's not because the filesize is increased but because it's annoying, people won't look through all those screenshots anyway. 3 or even 1 screenshot is usually enough to show what kind of map it is and how well it looks :P.

Haven't gotten my PC up and running yet so I probably wont have time to test it today.

-- Edited by Thrallala on Saturday 13th of March 2010 09:59:08 PM

stevelois · ...

THX for the compliments bro biggrin

Well, I try to be as helpful as I can in map testings & threat everyone the same way with respect. I'm like that, real life / virtual life is the same for me.

Your a nice guy to bro & don't worry about your appearance on forums. I know your gonna help when you have time to do so. I'm not expecting anyone to be devoted here or anywhere else about posting & such.

RL is what is important. As for the rest of this virtual life, well, do what you can, not what you can't wink

This map will be a keeper for sure when final & for the credits (yes I had read your first post before posting but I was expecting to see our name in the readme since you mention you will be including them), personally, I THX those who help me in a way or in another. Those who didn't help get no credits, but it's your call bud smile

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Finally a successful upload ...

**sigh** failed 1/2 dozen times, i was finally able to have mediafire accept the file by changing it to .rar instead of .7z shame though because it's 5MB larger now, oh well, at least its not that big of a file.

OK guys well here is the link, my apologies

http://www.mediafire.com/?tntzy1jq3zn

passsword = UOFCrew

It's done but i'll let you guys look through it before i officially release it.

-- Edited by 1xTrEmE on Sunday 14th of March 2010 06:14:57 AM

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Checked the map out and I reckon it's a go for release IMO!

Tested with 8 bots and had a lotta fun with it!

Lighting seems better with little things like the stairs being lit up a bit and the fire light across the wall! They are only small things but small things like that breathe extra life to a map!