stevelois wrote:

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@1x

Hey bro, I finally change the water material completely. It took me like 9 hours to found one & set it right but now it's very nice

Good job getting that solved satisfactorily. Only 9 hours? ROFL, your like me bro; (perfectionist)

I dunno what Odedge can suggest more because except the culling, I already use lot's of optimizations from the start in the day version.

Checks & balances dude, that's all i was saying.. sometimes we all overlook something here or there. Ode is good on that end and any of us might even catch something or have useful suggestions or tips for eachother at times. ;) - though it sounds like you've got the fundamental optomizations down quite well.

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Odedge wrote:

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Played a round and here are my thoughts....

1. Visually, it's looks very, very niiice... I think the night setting feels right with a nice combination of moonlight and flames to give some contrast to the lighting. For the most part, I didn't have a hard time seeing the bots, given that I play against them with out the name tags.

Cool & THX

2. When you go outside of the building, even if you aren't alive, the post processing really changes and doesn't make sense. It goes from normal to almost pitch black.

The PP in the day version give the sense of a sun burn so that is why it's so bright. For the night version I want something dark which is the opposite. Perhaps I can change the effect to make it more blueish than black ?

3. the frame rate department needs some help, if possible. The worst spot is the sniper weapon looking across the map. For me, it drops to low thirties. My eyes are somewhat sensitive to frame rates this low. Also, when you go from 60 to 30 in too short of a time, that change is also noticeable.

At this point, there is 1.25 million+ static mesh triangles, which seems a bit much, given the size of the map.

Yep, I know that the sniper spot is the badest FPS spot. The 1.x triangles to render is caused by the added emitters. The day version render ±800 000 polys but the added emitters add around 400 000 triangle into the scene & is 50% responsable of the FPS drop along the dynamic lighting. There are other things I add but there poly count isn't noticeable.

Only thing I can do is cull some of them but since the map is wide open, I won't be able to cull the majority of them because you can't see the emitter from one angle but can see it from another angle. I also can replace the flame / dynamic lighting with some fix lights but it won't look as nice.

4. Just a thought, have you thought of redoing the layout some? A different of the map, like this, is a good chance to mix things up if you think it won't hurt game play.

Well, no, I didn't think of changing anything (layout speaking) since I want the same gameplay in both version (day & night).

Over all, you have done a great job with the night time version. As it stands now, it seems like the frame rates are just too low for me (against 6 bots) to make the game consistently enjoyable compared to the daytime version.

I know you like to optimize your maps and it's hard to know what to suggest to further help in this department. Anyways, good luck polishing it up.

Since we maps for ourselves first, the FPS drop doesn't impact my gameplay on my rig. I already made a lot of optimizations as you already read in one of my previous post.

Edit: While looking at the map in the editor, I remembered something else...

5. You might want to set the torch and torch holders to not block players, since they are relatively small.

I already thought & test that. I remove collisions on torches but I left collisions 'on' on the torches holder because I found them a bit to big to not to let them with there collisions active. Beside, the torche holder collision model is rather simple so the geometry isn't that demanding to render. If you double jump, you can pass trought them & it doesn't feel right in my matches. I also add a physic volume on each one of them so if the player want to stand on the torche holder for some time & will get 5 damage points. It may sound odd but some players like to try to stand on anything possible (like our international flying monkey here...) & will post that they aren't able to stand there & that getting no damage while standing on a flame is ridiculous or can be see as not polished or well thought.

Also, while reading the thread, I have a couple thoughts about optimizing...

1. There might be a few more areas of the terrain you can erase.  Try toggling wireframe on and that should give you a better idea if the player will ever see it.

I'll recheck for the night version but I doubt that I would be able to hide any remaining part of the terrain because it as been already done on the day version.

2. I know you are going for visual quality, but a light map resolution of 2 on a BSP is really high (ironically enough given it's value of "2").  I have a 9800 GT 512MB video card, which can handle most of the retail DM maps with no noticeable problem.  If you want shadows that are that detailed, it's going to cost.

Yep, it cost file size, but even with crispier shadows, the file is only ±5 MB bigger including better LM meshes which I don't see that as a problem.

Note that the day version is using the same BSP LM values but on other surfaces since the lights aren't casting the same surfaces. I already change some surfaces from 4 to 32 that doesn't need crisp shadows & set others surface the other way around to gain crispier shadows on the surfaces that needed. Only surface that LM as been raised to 2 or 4 that as been forgotten in the day version is on the BIio ceiling. What I try to explain it that surfaces that crispier shadows aren't needed are set to 32 & when needed to 8-4-2 or 1.

3. I am sure you are aware of this, but with the rocks/cliffs, using the meshes that don't have a "backside" to them might help some, but also limit the shapes you can use.

Like I said above, I didn't change the meshes already in place. But when I place them in the day version, I already check the one that was the most suitable (size / polycount) for this or that spot. I mean that I prefer to use a big mesh that as 3000 triangles that I'll use 4 times (12000 triangle total) than using smaller / less complex meshes that use 1000 triangles but I'll have to use 20 of them (20000 tirangles) to obtain the shape I want. That is why the meshes (clif rocks) use outside the play area are mostly the same mesh & the smaller one are the same as the play area with a different material. I'll recheck the cliff meshes to see if I can found the same without the backside / underneath face but by memory I didn't saw them.

4. When it comes to it, I think all of the emitters might also have a noticeable effect too, but that will also change the look of the map.

Indeed, as excplained above.

Granted all maps don't have to be playable on all machines and since the daytime version runs well, you might as well make this one pretty.

I'll try to cull some stuff around & also look for the rock meshes (at the horizon) with half the faces.

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In all, I'm happy you like the visuals. I thought that FPS would be an issue for some & I'll try to optimize a bit more. I'll make sure to mention that this version is visually oriented when I'll publish it next week.

THX for checking it out

Bl!tz wrote:

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i wasnt abble to resist to give it a go and it was a good idea ;)
i like all u have done except:

Cool

-the flames moove is really too speed for a wood fire (thoses flames are as speed as an hydrocarbure fire and are dancing too much for torches imo

Which one, the big ones or the small ones TBH, I like them that way but I'll see if I can come up with a better result. Still I promise nothing.

-the fire in the stone "pipe" emit too much smoke

Which one again, the one near the vest or the one near the Stinger

-the fire noise is too "oppressive"and it can help the fun aspect to tone it down a little

Are you referring to all fire or only the big one. It's odd because your sound settings is higher than mine & I don't think it's to loud at all while playing

-the grass looks too green & lighty again 'lol as u ve endarked the map the color is more flashy....(the color of the "flat foliage is more dark and is exactly the kind of coloration i was expecting for grass in such a place...looks like the grass is fluorescent depending from where u watch it

Mmm... I already reduce the grass brightness by 40%, more than that it look transparent................. look like grass "on a diet" lol The foliage on the upper level as been enhance a bit but the color didn't change. I doubt that I can enhance the grass color because I already mess around with that & it was the best I could obtain.

for the rest it s trully an asskick and some color reflexions on the walls are superb (ex: i was standing 10 minutes before the two 25pts health packs close to each other on the upper level ,the reflection of their light on the wall give a superb mix blue /brown to the bricks

good job mate and srry i havent read in detail all otha comments... so srry if i mentionned something that was mentionned previously :p

But what about your FPS

Happy you like the visuals couzin

THX for checking it

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TIPPER wrote:

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Ffs steve will ya just get on with the bloody thing! :)

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stevelois wrote:

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Not sure I will publish the map on Epic..........

What do you think dudes ? It is worth it ???

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