CTF-Citius (Final)

stevelois · ...

CTF-Citius (Final)

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

RE: CTF-Citius

stevelois · ...

LOL

Indeed, I thought that making 2 completely different maps but with the same assets / materials with the same name would be great.

& yeah, I'll need all the powaaaaaaaaaaaa of the force to make those !

THX young Ody-1-Kenobi :p

stevelois · ...

I wanted to mention that I'm blocked on severals aspects & I might not be able to release the map with the pack in due time.

So since I'm stuck, I decide to start something else, a DM map the size of Aly for 2-4 players. I don't intent to make it for the pack so I will switch with this one & Citius whenever I can't progress in 1 map I would be able to work on the other.

I'm also starting to be more busy in RL so I'll do what I can with my UT time.

NOVA · French cat under acid

stevelois wrote:
I wanted to mention that I'm blocked on severals aspects & I might not be able to release the map with the pack in due time.

Maybe we can help you, what is your troubles in this map?

stevelois · ...

It's the meshing (again) in the middle of the map. Also, the layout isn't obvious to make in that part of the map.

You will be able to give me a hand wen I will eventually finish the layout on the red base.

I intent to finish all the red base & upload an alpha so you will see half the map completed so depending on the feedback I'll be able to optimize one side of the map to duplicate it after for the blue base.

THX for asking my Seb ;)

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

....same here steve if i can help....lol^^

....but just to tell: no picts since u started? how the hell can we help you?plz bro post some picts and tell us what block you....not that u abort the map because u are stuck! dont u think someone round here can help ya? common take ur picts and post some pills....hm.....yup.... zZzZzZz....

NOVA · French cat under acid

yes, give us a link to the alpha and post sreenshots to explain your troubles and we will help you for sure, don't abord it, I have see the pic on your blog, it's a very good start, so don't let it go ;)

stevelois · ...

THX eric & seb for your support :D

Don't worry, i'm not aborting anything. I got stuck in all my maps at a certain point, so it's normal to me lol

I want to post some pics, the prob is...... in unlit mode, you can't distinguish the layout & in lit mode, you don't see a thing since lighting is veeeeeeeery basic. So I have nothing concrete to show you. Not that I don't want to, it's just that I can't for the moment.

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

stevelois wrote:
Don't worry, i'm not aborting anything. I got stuck in all my maps at a certain point, so it's normal to me lol

Ah ....

I know this feeling uncle; i'm right there with you, i am exactly the same way.

I am stuck right now as a matter of fact. lol - sometimes its better for me to take a break when i'm over-working the editor, otherwise i usually force myself to move onto a different area / aspect of the project but it isn't always easy i am very ordered & systematic, (almost to a fault - it has cut into my profits at times in RL because i do too good of a job for the money i charge) if you look at my UT3 work you'll see it is typically very symmetrical in design & flow, because of guys like you (other UOF'rs, & some Epic guys) who handle design so well i have over come some hurdles and had a paradigm shift to find a better balance i feel.

I hope it shows in my future work.

Good to know i'm not the only one who has occasional mappers cramp confuse

see 'writers block' guys

stevelois · ...

LOL

Yeah bro, there is a good bunch of mappers I know that get stuck while mapping. Indeed, we are not alone lol What is funny is that some stuck on meshing, other on lighting other on botpathing & so on. Some found this aspect hard, others ffound the other aspect hard, look like all mappers have difficulties with this or that while mapping.

For me, the most easiest things are gameplay, flow, bothpathing, BV, sounds & collisions.

The hardest thing is meshing, lighting & materials. Those 3 aren't my cup of tea.

I didn't thought other would think I handle map design that well, I'm surprise smile

Instead of stopping everything, I start to work on something else & eventually, I get inspiration to come back after.

& I try to get rid of the cramp" on the toilet, it help LOL

stevelois · ...

So I thought that 2 pics will show a bit of the map even if you can't really see something "concrete"...

- The default BSP is the main red base.
- The middle part where you see rocks & concrete is the middle of the red base.
- The platform at the right is where the jonction of the red / blue part will be.
- The small island below is the redeemer spot.

Red base with her middle part from the top. I didn't started to applied materials on the base so that is why it's all the default material. I put all my effort on the middle part since ±1 month which will be inside the concrete building. 50% concrete & 50% rocks since this facility is all on rocks.

The second pic is to show that in the middle of the base. The colors line is to show the pathways you will be able to take. Each path as something to collect. the "lazy" path has nothing while the middle one as 1 medium health + ammo & the path at your left get more health + more ammo + the chance to translocate to the redeemer spot.

The small spot you see on the middle top is the belt spot but it's subject to change in the dev.

So at least, you see something lol

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Looks like it'll be quite interesting! PLenty of paths to use which is good!

stevelois · ...

THX m8 & I hope that it will be a cool map in the end :)

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Looks like a boss works in the making dude, i like the layout and concept.

Bane the Zergling · crocodile dundee

Interesting work uncle steve looks like a maze already.

NOVA · French cat under acid

Looks a good start ;)

About get stuck, the meshing is the part who block me sometime.
I always work on several projects on the same time, it's allow to not have bad feeling and abort nothing ;)

stevelois · ...

THX for all your comments guy's, I appreciate :D

I'll post other pics when obvious progress will be made :)

Ho and Seb, I never really work on various maps at the same time, except when I'm stuck. In fact, I started Aly when I was stuck on Nano.

I started another small DM this w-e which I call DM-DeadZone (look like the name asn't been used yet). It's a small HOLP map for 4-6 players like the size of Aly with a black & white theme. I made the layout from scratch 3 times, I have some visions but nothing concrete yet.

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

NOVA wrote:

About get stuck, the meshing is the part who block me sometime.
I always work on several projects on the same time, it's allow to not have bad feeling and abort nothing ;)

....+1 to that

@steve: cant really tell bout the meshing at this stage but that kind of layout is promisive....nice job.... ;)

stevelois · ...

THX cousin :)

I think I'll use a UT99 music track for a change. It's very cool you post the originals sound track links in the other thread ;)

rathalos150 · Monster Hunter

BSP looks excellent in the main area of the red base. This place is going to be a labyrinth! I still don't know my way around Nano.... Oh boy here we go ;)

stevelois · ...

LOL

It's funny for me because I found all my maps rather simple :D

But no worries m8, the base is wide open & the middle base as more pathways but you will know where is the flag carrier since all path are easily accessible ;)

stevelois · ...

I mess around with PP settings (like in Nano & Aly) to establish my lighting starting point.

This is only where the shock is located. I start to use "a tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny bit" of lights to give me an idea of where I'm going. I'm leaving the lighting for the "desert" but at least, it give a quick view of what to expect when all the map will be lighted properly.

This spot can be seen from my previous post but it's like in the background so you might not see it clearly...

I must say I like it but there will be more blue since the neons are using the default white color. Unlit & lit view below.

NOVA · French cat under acid

nice meshing work ;)

As for lighting, I always make the lighting first and at the last end I set my PP, I find it more easy to tweak it in that way, just my method ;)

rathalos150 · Monster Hunter

Whoa, Those pics look mighty nice! Great meshing work.

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

+1!
Meshing looks great and the lighting tops it off nicely!

stevelois · ...

THX guy's

But there is sooooooo much to do lol

I have a couple of things in my head, I just hope it will turn up well in the editor lol

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

I know what you mean, i think life is the same way, somethings come natural for some and are alien to others. One person is good at one thing and the next person is good at something else.

I understand what you are saying as far as you, i think you have some strong points as follows in my observation:

attention to detail
meticulous
patience
creativity
excellent meshing skills

I looked at Nano in the editor and was very impressed with your mesh work, its a little mesh heavy for my particular taste but you managed to pull it off to be very satisfying even to someone like me who thought the retail Coret was nasty looking, you did far better than who ever worked on that map.

Now as for me real fast i have virtually the same qualities as you, (i hope) but i was so turned off by retail coret and less talented people performing meshzilla rituals in the editor that i was over-compensating with BSP, texture work and trick lighting effects, some of my other strengths, thanks to skillful mappers like you as i mentioned in my above post and others (namely the UOF crew) a few from Epic i have seen good examples to give me a better concept that it can be done with out a Coret / Meshzilla disaster. I hope that makes sense bro cause i think i can never explain it more clearly. lol

i've improved tremendously with my mesh work, my first release wasn't too shabby it certainly wasn't a plain-jane old-school vanilla but it was mesh lite because i had ran too far in the other direction, now i have found the stable ground that feel solid to stand on, i think i've found a very nice balance. Booyah! Again i have guys like you to thank uncle.

...............................................................

(i catch on fast thankfully, its not hard for me to get upto speed) i've mapped since UT99 but i'll admit there is certainly a next-gen learning curve in this latest addition of the unreal engine.

stevelois · ...

Hey bro, your a well observer because indeed, you list some of my qualities as a person which I also apply to my work (except the meshing skill that I can't really apply on anything real lol).

THX for the Nano compliment bro, I'm pleased (very happy) :D

I read a lot of your posts in other threads regarding a good balance of BSP / mesh. Frankly, I see maps like a house, you must decorate the house so it is harmonious to live in. Not enough deco is as worst as to much deco. This rule ofc apply for a general house. Still, there are rooms that are almost nude & you can say "WOW" when you enter that room. In the gaming world, imho, it doesn't matter if the room is 100% build from mesh or BSP as long at is harmonious. Ofc, for performances reasons, it is more adequate to use both of them but they have both there good / bad side of use.

As for your maps, since there more BSP oriented than mesh, by judging your 2 CTF maps, you did some solid, very believable works & much better than I could do with materials. The meshing is very simple (to my standard) BUT it is sufficient & look very good anyway. It's not the quantity of mesh that count but rather how you manage to play with those "lego block" (my vision of mesh) to obtain a pleasing mix of forms & style. I'm curious to see your next work but you don't need to worry about using more mesh because you master the BSP & lighting very well so meshing isn't something crucial in your case to produce great maps ;)

The reason why I mesh my maps so much is because I'm not good enough with materials & lighting so I compensate with mesh work. & it's the fact that I also love some detailed shapes that I can't obtain with raw BSP.

But I'm happy if I could indirectly inspire you in a way or in another to build more meshed maps :)

I'm a happy uncle :D

-- Edited by stevelois on Saturday 9th of January 2010 12:05:52 AM

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

I'm a happy uncle :D

Hell yeah that's what i'm talk'n bout! dude glad your happy uncle, that makes me happy to see my comrade happy. ;)

stevelois wrote:
Hey bro, your a well observer because indeed, you list some of my qualities as a person which I also apply to my work (except the meshing skill that I can't really apply on anything real lol).

THX for the Nano compliment bro, I'm pleased (very happy) :D

I read a lot of your posts in other threads regarding a good balance of BSP / mesh. Frankly, I see maps like a house, you must decorate the house so it is harmonious to live in. Not enough deco is as worst as to much deco. This rule ofc apply for a general house. Still, there are rooms that are almost nude & you can say "WOW" when you enter that room. In the gaming world, imho, it doesn't matter if the room is 100% build from mesh or BSP as long at is harmonious. Ofc, for performances reasons, it is more adequate to use both of them but they have both there good / bad side of use.

As for your maps, since there more BSP oriented than mesh, by judging your 2 CTF maps, you did some solid, very believable works & much better than I could do with materials. The meshing is very simple (to my standard) BUT it is sufficient & look very good anyway. It's not the quantity of mesh that count but rather how you manage to play with those "lego block" (my vision of mesh) to obtain a pleasing mix of forms & style. I'm curious to see your next work but you don't need to worry about using more mesh because you master the BSP & lighting very well so meshing isn't something crucial in your case to produce great maps ;)

The reason why I mesh my maps so much is because I'm not good enough with materials & lighting so I compensate with mesh work. & it's the fact that I also love some detailed shapes that I can't obtain with raw BSP.

But I'm happy if I could indirectly inspire you in a way or in another to build more meshed maps :)

It's true what you say, i agree with the house decorating example, you have good tastes IMO, some people decorate their house so wild that it make others feel like puking - including crazy colors, unusual combination's etc. (and to them it looks good) lol, others have a more common universal feel and a good eye for what looks good, i think we share this quality here (as do the other UOF mappers - don't want to leave the other guys out) :) - some damn fine talent here, some raw like diamonds in the rough yet being refined and honed wtih more experience.

Glad you understood my examples and explanation uncle.

I appreciate your feedback, compliments & opinion as well bro, that means a lot to me. I'll have to get some pictures up real soon (latest works) wink

I also like that you have a good sense for the value of balance, i've read some of your posts as well, i realize you look for visuals and small details (i think we share this, maybe in manifest a bit differently sometimes) as we say some guys it's lighting, layout, materials, mesh work ect. There are some universals though; if something looks like a turd - it's a turd, if something looks quality its apparent too.

Again.. agreed a healthy balance is key! - too much can be as bad as not enough sometimes, and vice versa. - I also think some houses and projects can / should be decorated and fancied up more or differently than others, depends on many factors, (goals, concept, time, preference, etc.)

stevelois · ...

RE: CTF-UOF-Citius

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Unless someone knows something i don't know-

Not possible Uncle, this is why you should perhaps balance your PP settings so it looks good with both settings.

I'm afraid many authors do this with maps assuming that bloom will always be on or can be forced.

A style i use is to get my lighting as close as possible to look good with PP Previs disabled, after accomplishing that then i enable and make subtle changes with PP, too much contrast though will kill just about any map. IMO. - as much as not enough or a "stock" look.

I assume some mappers start with a PP setting they like then work the lights, - opposite of me. Just my

-- Edited by 1xTrEmE on Friday 15th of January 2010 02:35:31 AM

stevelois · ...

Well, the default look is ugly so that is why I use both bloom & dof to obtain my starting lighting point & after adjust the lights.

To give you an idea those 2 pics represent the default ugly lighting & the lighting I like that I would like to always have in any condition ingame:

The light cones are the default one & the background asn't been started to much so it suck indeed. My post is only about founding a solution about bloom & dof. But if I can't found a way, to bad.

stevelois · ...

No one as an opinion about those pics since 6 days ???

Ho well, I work on this map everyday but my progress is so small that I'm not confident I'll be able to include the map in the pack anyway so I'll edit the readme thread.

NOVA · French cat under acid

All forums looks slow and damn quiet this days...
This pic looks fine Steve ;)

As for me I have some troubles with my main pc so I can progress as much as I want on my map...
Hope you will have time to finish your, It would a shame to not have this cool map on the pack ;)

bye cousin !

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Latest meshing pics look great!

For some reason I really like how you've got the computer panel sitting in a recess. Looks great!

Only thing I don't like is the red lighting on the cylinders on the roof and the red material in the bottom right hand corner. Bit too red for my liking and it doesn't seem to suit everything else. If the light cones were more transparent it'd look quite good.

stevelois · ...

@Seb

Yeah, I hope that I will be able to make it final on time :)

@Lord

THX m8 :) I'll use a lot of computers here & there & I want to place them in spots they can stand out.

Yeah, I agree that the red on the tank @ the concrete stand out a lot. I do like it that way but it will be polished out when the lighting will be done as along as other materials that I'll enhance because they look damn washed out.

stevelois · ...

RE: CTF-UOF-Citius [Pre-alpha][Download n/a][Pics 24/01/10]

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Carry on soldier!

I think you'll be finished in time .. ;) this map has an outdoor element as well correct?

stevelois · ...

Indeed bro, ±50% indoor & ±50% outdoor as mentioned at post #11.

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

#11 or #12? :D

This map will be awesome with the combination (should be interesting) if you make the outside look anything like Aly, (or as good as) i'm already sold.

stevelois · ...

THX bro,

Post 11, 12, bah, I mix my pills again, dunno how to count anymore lol

Well, I intent to use lot's of meshing for the interior but not as much for the exterior or else I'll, end up like Nano with 11500 assets ! I wouldn't be surprise I reach that amount of meshing TBH since it's a CTF...

I intent to add some mountains at the horizon.

I use different approach in all my maps while building them. The natural outside area of Aly shouldn't be see again in any of my maps because I like to create something new for me every time.

But for this one, a big waterfall is planned, so there will be something maybe similar to Aly for this case only ;)

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Perhaps you need to borrow some of Flying Monkey's herb tea?

Ah, i see i see. Well then that sounds good and i agree with you as to the originality aspect, just keep the quality part the same, (i know you wouldn't have it any other way) everything else is better unique.

Mountains will be nice, i'm sure you'll do a good realistic surreal job with that aspect.

I know what you mean with assets, they ad up quickly.
Don't feel bad; i'm running around 7K right now in RB and it's still rough. Just wait until i ad 100 thousand bricks!! muahahahah..

again, keep up the good work!

stevelois · ...

LOLLL

The difference with my pills and are national monkey is that I have alcohol in mines haha :D

Well, I dunno what the background will look like since it's very far away in my planning. But it was very easy to do, TBH, it was the easiest part to make in Aly. Only thing long to set right is lighting + fog for the nice background because placing those mesh & play with threr properties is really childplay lol. What I'm doing right now is far more complicated for me since it's my first humanoid / techy map.

Going to bed now, it's 7 AM lol

Good day bro :)

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

last picts looks good to me but thats not a surprise ; your meshing style fit like a glove to the meshes u have choosen for this map and more globaly to all "tech" & necris stuff"

cant wait how u will mix that with the outside mountains :p

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

stevelois wrote:

LOLLL

The difference with my pills and are national monkey is that I have alcohol in mines haha :D OH SNAP!

Well, I dunno what the background will look like since it's very far away in my planning. But it was very easy to do, TBH, it was the easiest part to make in Aly. Only thing long to set right is lighting + fog for the nice background because placing those mesh & play with threr properties is really childplay lol. What I'm doing right now is far more complicated for me since it's my first humanoid / techy map. LMAO, 'childsplay" i like that term, while we're making little jokes ever hear of 'Chucky?' ROFL just google that name sometime. hahaha. - on the serious side yeah that's the easy part the other work is more complicated i agree.

Going to bed now, it's 7 AM lol (looks like a few of us are/were burning the midnight oil)

Good day bro :) - Same to you bro

I agree with Bl!tz!

And personally i think it's OK to use primarily the HU theme, mix a bit of LT tech and maybe a very small amount of the certain NEC tech if it's done the right way, i think you have the ability to do it right. I trust your eyes! - if something doesn't seem right i'm sure others will let you know.

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Some peeps on the epic forums hate seeing mixed mesh sets...
I however believe mixing different themed meshes breeds originality!

Your meshing so far looks great IMO!

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

our international monkey...!...

stevelois · ...

@1x

Yep, the Chucky movies are very funny. Old but good stuff & indeed, lot's of us don't sleep to much I supposed lol & indeed, if you think something look weird, don't hesitate to mention it ;)

@Lord

Yeah, I don't like mixed mesh myself unless it fit well together. I use a lot of the same assets as Bazzwanno maps. But I do explore other materials instead of the default one making them looking nicer than stock one. I don't do that with all materials, only those I found to look washed out or I must change something. Hopefully, you guy's like the result so far, ouf :) THX m8 :)

@Blitz

Yeah, I love that "international monkey thing", it fit's you so well in term of popularity (not speaking like a politician :p) LOL When I'll add some mountains, I'll think of you m8 :D

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Lord_PorkSword wrote:

Some peeps on the epic forums hate seeing mixed mesh sets...
I however believe mixing different themed meshes breeds originality!
Your meshing so far looks great IMO!

Ironic, i was just busy typing and telling Odedge something similar in his Waterworks thread.

He works wonders with meshing indeed.

IMO, you can get away with mixing the 'right stuff' and it only compliments each other, on the other hand if you try to throw in every asset from the editor even if you stay within a theme it's possible combine stuff that doesn't seem to fit well, no easy business this editing stuff guys, i take my hat off to all of ya!

OK my son is waiting to play Tic Tac Toe with me, now off to something a little easier, :) BBL.