DM-Dolmens(RCF)

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

DM-Dolmens(RCF)

Bane the Zergling · crocodile dundee

RE: DM-Dolmens(Beta1)

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

hi zerglings; i agree 16 is perhaps excessive but from 2 to 12 at least it s playable...imo

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

DM-Dolmens(RC1)

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

At first I thought this was a small map. I was quite wrong...
Plays well with 12 bots I thought!
Arcitecture is very nice and I love the asteroid suspended by the chains!

At one point I hid in a corner of the map and using the scope on the sniper rifle I checked out the Hirax station is the background which I found was a good visual treat!

Following comments related to Beta1 as I haven't tried the RC yet!

Only issue I noticed was the bridge connections to the BSP structures. The bridges seemed to be floating. I'd post a screenie but I'm at work atm.

I'm glad you made this smaller level from the larger one. It kinda reminds me of your Solaris map as it has nice mix of normal and z-axis action to it!

-- Edited by Lord_PorkSword on Monday 16th of November 2009 12:25:59 AM

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

thx mate i ll try to fix the bsp/bridge connection :)

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

I tested the Beta 1 version and agree that it's actually a bigger map than it appears given it's scaling and the lower section.

A few thoughts...

1. The gaps between the stone henge (at the top) can allow players to fall (maybe bots too). Might want to add some blocking volumes or resize the meshes.

2. The main platform in the center of the map could use some basic mesh trimming (especially in the middle octagon hole). If you kept the brushes having right angles, it would match the floor texturing better. When you have other angles, iyou lose that "grouting" part of the texture and it doesn't look as nice.

3. By the same octagon hole, you might want to put more path nodes at the other edges of it. This way the bots will jump down in more places.

4. While I like the elements in your space dome, it seems it's a bit much in only a couple of places. For example, when you look towards the moon, you have it, plus 2 other moon like meshes and 2 galaxies.

5. I presume you will be deleting the other playable areas in addition to the "earth mesh" that is covering part of the the playable area (staticmeshactor_25).

6. For what it's worth, I wish there were more z-fighting opportunites, but such as life. Maybe you can add some on the main level (with the octagon hole).

7. I do like the "ancient runins" meets outer space, especially the rocket thrusters on each of the map.

8. I think the sun is providing some nice base lighting and the shadows look nice. I think it needs more contrast with detailed lights though.

Hope this helps and good luck polishing it up.

Edit: After one more round...

9. I would raise the killzone level at the bottom of the map as you tend to fall too long before dieing. Also, you fall out of or into a post processing volume that completely blurs your view (depth of field), which doesn't look right.

10. Given that the playable area is at the edge of the total map, you can see that you are really close to the edge of the space sky dome mesh. I would raise the drawscale value much higher (I think I have mine at 1000". Also, I would push back that nebulae that's closest to the map farther back.

11. There is an Avril on top of the Stone Henge and there are no vehicles in the map (which is a good thing, at lest for my tastes).

12. Make sure the bots can get to the 100 health and shield belt.

-- Edited by Odedge on Monday 16th of November 2009 08:32:51 AM

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

yoooo ode

not really huge because the low grav reduce seriously the distances and it s a 3 seconds affair to cross the structure on the 3 levels...but i agree it looks really like a small map from the pictures and a huge from the "inside" first feeling

1. i found reallistic to fall between stones as far as you u dont get stuck between them ; i m balancing between more reallistic (u can fall through the stones) or more fluid (u cant fall)....i hope u wasnt stuck between them ...haha

2.this point is very interressant but i m not sure to understand exactly what u mean

3. where can jump bots if they use that hole? in fact i can only imagine them jumping in that hole to collect the redeemer...cant u expand your idea plz?

4.good point; though some moons/planets have stuff hide inside (bsp + teleporters :p) will try to remoove the unusefull ones to kill the repetitive aspect
the map actually use 100% of the grid and it was pure pain to keep all with a coherent aspect and i wasnt abble to add stuff that cover "huge" areas because from other parts of the map it wasnt looking right too(same problem for point10)
other point is that i want to keep coherence/ressemblance between the differents maps that will be created (the huge VDM and this little one for example) it had be easy to hide a lot but it have to be coherent on other versions

5.i ll verify the mesh n°, but i think it s already deleted in RC2

6.Ohhh? here u surprise me ; i m actually flying 75 % of the time on that map and more Zaction will makes me "bring back my dinner" on the map haha...but if u have specific ideas on more Zaxe i m open ;)

7.thx

8.what kind of light?; i tryed to not add any lightsource except natural ones (sun & "ambiant space skylight".....and the reactors light) to keep a abandonned feeling and to get shadows & lighting from the sun going more deep in the map

9.i was going to add thoses pp volumes all around the map to materialise the map limits and to allow vehicles to change direction before the death....and to "harmonise" i though it was better to use same way for all killz volumes...
though i can hear you and if some other peeps complain i ll remoove it

10.m not sure to find a way to fix "point10"...i have add the big nebulae mesh (crab) to hide that "too stretched" part of the skydome

11. it is also fixed and a armor vest (replace the avril) is now facing the stinger

12. i m working on this point (i cant succed to force bots to jump in that hole to collect super health & shield belt) i ll read again dies post about forcing path...can be the answer

muti thx for the detailled & very usefull feedback ode m8 and thx for your time :)

done:

-i have add 2 "concrete blocks" to "polish" the junction between the wood bridges and the bsp in the lower level (thx mick for pointing it)

-the skylight have been reset up from 0.75 to 0.9 to enlight the darkest areas in a more decent way ( more comfortable visibility of the darkests areas))

-the 2 sun lightpoints have been reset from 3 to 2 but with a more "withish "color to accentuate contrasts(not so bright/hurting eyes while facing/wtching the sun )

-the big planet that is actually around the map(u cant see it from games (it was here to hide the arena from the rest of the map in the "big" hirax edition this planet size have been reduced and is visible from the dolmen arena now

-the weapons on the octogonal arena have been centred to not be so close of the limits and to prevent accidental falls while collecting them

-wasnt enough health stuff in the central area so:
*3 health vials have been add on each woodbridge in the lower level
*was 4 weapons base facing each other in the octogonal arena (2 bio/2flack) now only 2 weapons base facing eachothers(flak/bio) and 2 x 50 health facing each other....work really better so and it have give more interrest to the octogonal place(middle level + bridges)

srry for my froggy english ;)

i forgot to repeat that it s highly recommended to use the dodgejump mutator on that map as several jumps are possible with it (not without) do u think i should add the mutator directly in the map? ....because i m sure 90 % of the peeps will not follow the recommendation haha

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Monday 16th of November 2009 03:57:31 PM

rulaman · Unreal Old Friend

Hi !

Just did a short test of it. 27 Mins download? Mediafire... lol

I like the map itself, especially the stonehenge thing and the bridge! Nice idea that kind of temple in space! biggrin

(btw: the bridge also reminds me on a favorite Q3 map, have to search for it later, thx for reminder lol)

But there are a few things in sky/space which I don't like so much.
I'll send you a PM with download link to a few screens where I explain what I mean. There are a few things that don't fit my physically knowledge, and maybe I would even put less objects in the sky/space.
And would it be possible to bring more transparency in the nebula?

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

rulaman wrote:

Hi !

Just did a short test of it. 27 Mins download? Mediafire... lol

I like the map itself, especially the stonehenge thing and the bridge! Nice idea that kind of temple in space!
(btw: the bridge also reminds me on a favorite Q3 map, have to search for it later, thx for reminder lol)

But there are a few things in sky/space which I don't like so much.
I'll send you a PM with download link to a few screens where I explain what I mean. There are a few things that don't fit my physically knowledge, and maybe I would even put less objects in the sky/space.
And would it be possible to bring more transparency in the nebula?

thx mate i have to go now but i ll check yer pm asap

....for the nebulae yup i can but....not sure u ll like to see that overstretched skydome haha ;) it here to hide it :p so...transparency wasnyt an option but i agree if it had be possible it had be a nice visual improovment

1xTrEmE · its me .. i'm back

Sup my brotha's

Did some basic testing, first impression was very good, I like the foregone destruction remix, layout kicks A$$, there are some neat features, like the propulsion rockets, the meshes on your distant deco need adjustments to remove the tearing (look at it with the sniper scope) the bright nebula is a little much for me, (birghtness & busywise) otherwise i'm digging the space scene.

You absolutely need a CTF version for this map and i'm actually thinking that reversed flags might be the way to go for intense action (give that some thought) and possibly crank the gravity back to stock, CTF requires lots of fast dodging when carrying the flag would be the main reason, the lower grav might cause to much of a float effect for that. OK i'll have more for ya later on the CTF side of it if you want.

This is basically the same feedback i left on the epic forums, i wanted to get a post over here though because - well its actually an honor to be invited and i'll need to have you guys pick over my CFT-Rainbase map, its actually a much higher caliber than the CTF-Football map IMO, while its not quite as refined at this point, its feeling more nextgen, when i can look at my own work and say to myself this looks as good if not better than retain, then i know i'm doing something right especially as picky as i am. (to a fault actually)

Peace out!

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

yo bro

thx for the feedback

i have fix all the point mentionned by you; odedge;mick and rulaman (except point2 from odes feedback and the bot still not going in the hole to collect shieldbelt & supahealth):

-new sky dome with less moons & suns; no more blurry effect from the "crab" nebulae and a recentred skydome (no more too stretched visual effect)

-cement block add to polish the junction between the woodbridge and the bsp part

- all the meshes and the items and the brushes of the "other worlds" have been manually deleted (took me ages lol)

-revamped lighting :the skylight have been reset up from 0.75 to 0.9 to enlight the darkest areas in a more decent way ( more comfortable visibility of the darkests areas))

the 2 lightpoints from the sun have been reset from 3 to 1.5 but with a more "withish "color to accentuate contrasts(not so bright/hurting eyes while facing/wtching the sun )

-the weapons on the octogonal arena have been centred to not be so close of the limits and to prevent accidental falls while collecting them

again thx all for help :)

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Tuesday 17th of November 2009 02:55:42 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

1. i found reallistic to fall between stones as far as you u dont get stuck between them ; i m balancing between more reallistic (u can fall through the stones) or more fluid (u cant fall)....i hope u wasnt stuck between them ...haha
I have gotten stuck in there, which is not a good thing for a game as fast as UT.

2.this point is very interressant but i m not sure to understand exactly what u mean
When using BSP, you traditionally will add "trimming" to the edges of it to make it look better. This is similar to a baseboard in a kitchen or molding along the ceiling/wall. In your map, it's most important around the octagon hole, but might help along the areas. If you need it, I will post a picture of what I mean.

3. where can jump bots if they use that hole? in fact i can only imagine them jumping in that hole to collect the redeemer...cant u expand your idea plz?
If you look at the map in the editor (with paths being displayed), there is one path node at the very edge of that octagon hole and there is one path that a bot can use to jump down. You should add more path nodes like this around the hole, so they can jump down from multiple sides.
6.Ohhh? here u surprise me ; i m actually flying 75 % of the time on that map and more Zaction will makes me "bring back my dinner" on the map haha...but if u have specific ideas on more Zaxe i m open ;)
I know the low gravity makes the map have more z-fighting than a standard map, but I am talking about places you can walk on. Right now, the differences between the places you can walk on is a lot.

8.what kind of light?; i tryed to not add any lightsource except natural ones (sun & "ambiant space skylight".....and the reactors light) to keep a abandonned feeling and to get shadows & lighting from the sun going more deep in the map
I understand the natural look and if that's what you want to go for, that's fine. But to add some variety, most maps will have at least 2 different colors that contrast each other in addition to some lights being bright and some not so bright. As far as what kind, that's up to you. I would suggest detailed lights (small) that are placed around the map. If this wasn't set in space, I would suggest either orangish or blueish flames. Given this is "Unreal", why not have fire in space!

10.m not sure to find a way to fix "point10"...i have add the big nebulae mesh (crab) to hide that "too stretched" part of the skydome
Hmm, for Beyond Unreality, I have my space sphere set to a 200 drawscale value. Maybe if it's was bigger, you wouldn't notice the stretching because it would be much farther away.

12. i m working on this point (i cant succed to force bots to jump in that hole to collect super health & shield belt) i ll read again dies post about forcing path...can be the answer
You do have paths going to those places (if the bots go from the top, which they do grab the sniper rifle enough times). Maybe it's just too long of a trip for them to make. Or maybe you need a certain level of bots to make it? Front what I know, I don't think forcing paths will make bots take them. I believe it will force the editor to create them, whether the bots take them is another story.

muti thx for the detailled & very usefull feedback ode m8 and thx for your time :)

No problem man, keep it up.

srry for my froggy english ;)

Your froggy english is waaaaaaaaaaaay better than my Yankee french.

i forgot to repeat that it s highly recommended to use the dodgejump mutator on that map as several jumps are possible with it (not without) do u think i should add the mutator directly in the map? ....because i m sure 90 % of the peeps will not follow the recommendation haha
Not being a fan of dodge jumping (even in UT 2004), I would vote no. The map doesn't need it to play well, so forcing it on people isn't the best way. If you include it with the download and suggest people to use it, that's works as it still gives the player a choice!

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

"I have gotten stuck in there, which is not a good thing for a game as fast as UT."
no way to discut this point if u got stuck there i ll add BV

"When using BSP, you traditionally will add "trimming" to the edges of it to make it look better. This is similar to a baseboard in a kitchen or molding along the ceiling/wall. In your map, it's most important around the octagon hole, but might help along the areas. If you need it, I will post a picture of what I mean."
ohh u mean to add some "clothes/meshes" to my bsp? to make it less "sad" on the octogon ok ;)

"If you look at the map in the editor (with paths being displayed), there is one path node at the very edge of that octagon hole and there is one path that a bot can use to jump down. You should add more path nodes like this around the hole, so they can jump down from multiple sides."
another good point; will add 3 path nodes around the hole

"I know the low gravity makes the map have more z-fighting than a standard map, but I am talking about places you can walk on. Right now, the differences between the places you can walk on is a lot."

here i think the difference comes from the dodgejump mutator with it u can:
-cross the central hole on the octogon in one jump in the largest part
-walldodge from the statue to the top of the dolmens
-dodgejump from the bottom of the statues base (same level as the superhealth hole) to the top of the dolmens
-lateral dodge jump from the middle of the bottom woodbridges on the extreme right or left of the bottom level to not enter it from the center and than u can dodge jump direct on the wepaons bases
-lateral dodgejump from the external of the bottom level (on the grids) on the woodbridge
-dodgejump from the top of the dolmens on the sniper areas (bottom of statues)

"I understand the natural look and if that's what you want to go for, that's fine. But to add some variety, most maps will have at least 2 different colors that contrast each other in addition to some lights being bright and some not so bright. As far as what kind, that's up to you. I would suggest detailed lights (small) that are placed around the map. If this wasn't set in space, I would suggest either orangish or blueish flames. Given this is "Unreal", why not have fire in space!"
here too i m not sure to understand; on all my maps i use two differents colors ; the main source (sun or like that) and a "contrasted one" it s same way when u paint ;) here the skylight is teal (blue/greeny)...dark teal on 0.9 and the sun light is materialised by two large radius lightpoints ; one yellow white on 1.5 at the top of the sun and one "bronze" on1.5 at the bottom of the sun; i habitually only use one but as i wanted to get shadows on all the horizontal parts i had to build a sun with a larger radius than the arena is tall and with the 2 lightpoints i can have my shadows do u think the contrast between the yellow&bronze & the dark teal dont work for you? or are you talkin from something different?

"Hmm, for Beyond Unreality, I have my space sphere set to a 200 drawscale value. Maybe if it's was bigger, you wouldn't notice the stretching because it would be much farther away."
fixed , i had to reduce the skysphere and to center it :)

"You do have paths going to those places (if the bots go from the top, which they do grab the sniper rifle enough times). Maybe it's just too long of a trip for them to make. Or maybe you need a certain level of bots to make it? Front what I know, I don't think forcing paths will make bots take them. I believe it will force the editor to create them, whether the bots take them is another story."
they actually go very close to that fraqn hole but they just dont enter it :(

"Not being a fan of dodge jumping (even in UT 2004), I would vote no. The map doesn't need it to play well, so forcing it on people isn't the best way. If you include it with the download and suggest people to use it, that's works as it still gives the player a choice!"
big fan of the dodge jump i ll follow ur advice and add it in the pack so peeps can choose but i had be very please if u can give to the last RC a go with the mutator "on"; it really change the map
i forgot to tell that i wasnt abble to change the material on the floor of the octogon as diesalot suggested it to me because it s actually the one that gives the best results for me with contrasted & cutted shadows....srry craig haha ;)
thx again all for help ;)

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Tuesday 17th of November 2009 06:04:50 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

"When using BSP, you traditionally will add "trimming" to the edges of it to make it look better. This is similar to a baseboard in a kitchen or molding along the ceiling/wall. In your map, it's most important around the octagon hole, but might help along the areas. If you need it, I will post a picture of what I mean."
ohh u mean to add some "clothes/meshes" to my bsp? to make it less "sad" on the octogon ok ;)

here too i m not sure to understand; on all my maps i use two differents colors ; the main source (sun or like that) and a "contrasted one" it s same way when u paint ;) here the skylight is teal (blue/greeny)...dark teal on 0.9 and the sun light is materialised by two large radius lightpoints ; one yellow white on 1.5 at the top of the sun and one "bronze" on1.5 at the bottom of the sun; i habitually only use one but as i wanted to get shadows on all the horizontal parts i had to build a sun with a larger radius than the arena is tall and with the 2 lightpoints i can have my shadows do u think the contrast between the yellow&bronze & the dark teal dont work for you? or are you talkin from something different?

Sorry for having such a big picture, but you see the details easier. On the trim, it's mainly for the edges of the BSP. In my example, I used a Necris trim with the regular material and some with the same stone material you have on the top of your Stonehedge. Of course, you want it to look cleaner. You could actually make it out of BSP, so it's one piece and seamless, then convert it to a static mesh (to save on BSP custs).

The lights were quickly added just to communicate my point. There should be a light source to match with it. But having a contrast color (yellow and bronze are good "matching" colors that are actually different colors. But they don't contrast against each other. For that to happen, you have to have "complimentary" colors in your map.
For more info on complimentary colors, go to this page:
http://colorschemedesigner.com/
Select the "compliment" dial under the "Color Scheme Desiner" text. Now hold down your left mouse button and move it around the "color wheel". As you do this, look at the 4 squares on the top right part of the page. The first and last squares are complimentary colors. They will "stand" out the most when used together. You don't always have to use these exact colors.
For example, blue and yellow lighting tend to look together. Orange and Teal go well together too. To make things more subtle, the colors should not be saturate. In DM-Egitim, I think my "orange" lights were too "orange" and they should have been more subtle (even though I have seen lights that are really orange).
Thrallala has some nice lighting in his CTF-Eternity (from what I can see). A lot of it blends well, but then he has colors that contrast and stand out, with out looking bad.

p.s. Unless you are bored, no need to create the video on what a player can do with dodge jumping. I actually was able to jump from the outer side of the lower platform onto the bridge with a wall dodge. I think this map is really designed for the low gravity, so don't worry about my suggestion on adding more "z-fighting" areas. While I would like it, I don't know if would make the map better overall.

-- Edited by Odedge on Tuesday 17th of November 2009 07:37:26 AM

Diesalot · Drinker of too much beer

Hi mate.
Good job so far. I agree with Odedge on the trimming of your bsp.

1. I think continue the material on the left would look better than the asphalt.

2. Try to edit your brushes to fit the texture here and make the edges touch (edge of the brush at the edge of the material)

3.If you added another brush here you could break up the floor with another material. It looks a little repetitive right now.

I think Odedge pretty much covered the other points mate. So get busy...LOL

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

*héhé with a pictures it s more easy to understand;thx; ok i will try to apply what i can from all thoses usefull feedbacks

"p.s. Unless you are bored, no need to create the video on what a player can do with dodge jumping. I actually was able to jump from the outer side of the lower platform onto the bridge with a wall dodge. I think this map is really designed for the low gravity, so don't worry about my suggestion on adding more "z-fighting" areas. While I would like it, I don't know if would make the map better overall."

*this point i just still cant understand(or not sure):

"unless you are bored no need..."???????i m not bored! but unless YOU are bored you can watch it haha^^(i think i m missing "unless" sence or something like that)

-i m not only talking about where u can jump or not..... but more on the time it will take to you to do it!...and that impact directly the Zaxis possibilities and the gameplay flow & speed

-the video is in my post since hours and before your last one ...lol...and it s never a big job to create it...press "defil" +"v" ...and hop :)...oh and perhaps u can see the new lighting especially the floor part/texture on the octogon mentionned by diesalot m8; i actually see contrasted colors on it and i just have note that on your picts it s sad & uniform

....i can smell a trim session from here haha ;)

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Tuesday 17th of November 2009 04:32:28 PM

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

here are the last picts with the retailled lighting and new sky
i m still on the same kind of lighting and i had like to have your opinion before touching it again

i am satisfed with the lighting & shadows as the contrast (teal/yellow and teal/bronze is one of my favorite...ok it s out of "classical conventions"...lol......) but i ll follow your advices if you still "dont like "it....

@diesalot:dunno what to say about the repetitive floor textures...lol....i think it s one of my favorite pleasure in that map: watching that texture with cutted shadows ...it makes me always smile so i like it...haha...yeah i ll need anotha pills...falling in love with a texture!!!...cant believ it!...and i personnaly dont find it repetitive
if others can tell me their opinion on that point i ll try to go in the "majority" way..haha

......dont be scared of my post flow and of course take your time ; i m not in a hurry and as i said previously i m like a pandora box

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Tuesday 17th of November 2009 04:27:45 PM

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Shadows look great!

I kinda have to agree with what the others said. Chuck some trim around the edges of the floor. Personally I'd trim it with BSP, rather than meshes, using a suitable material that goes well with your floor material(which I agree with you that it looks nice!)

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

thx mick and for the trims it s on fire :)

funny that u told me to do in bsp...was thinking to do it so....more and more i like bsp and i dont understand why several brillant mappers are in "grippe" with it...for now i havent encounter anykind of problems with it but my lighting is simple as possible and that s probably the reason

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Admittidly I've become a huge fan of BSP compared to my original avoidance of it.
BSP is more manageable than meshes I've found. Plus I sware BSP seems to lightmap nicer than a mesh using the same material.

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

From what I can tell (with out being in the map), the lighting does look better. Where is the light source for the teal lighting? There should be a visible source for it.

Adding trim would help the map look less "squarish" and hide the transition from one texture to another. You could either place it on the top or on the top/side.

I agree with Diesalot that that the stone square texture are very repetitive. While this will happen in real life, it's usually a bad thing to have in maps. If you added some "walkways" or "trim" on the main floor, it will help break it up and add "contrast" to it. A good looking map always has contrast to almost everything inside it. Some times the contrast is very noticeable, other times it's more subtle.

As for the whole BSP thing, I think most people, when they think of BSP, they think "squares" and such. If you look at most of the HOLP maps, they avoid this and the map looks more detailed than it really is.

The other aspect to using BSP successfully is to have detailed textures in enough places. This helps give the map some depth/detail that BSP normally can't have. I have heard that the HOLP packs look better than the retail maps. Granted, they look great for what they are, they are still primarily made out of BSP and that doesn't look "realistic", even in an Unreal universe.

I think the stock maps look way better than HOLP maps because they actually look like places that can exist in some universe. But, I will agree that I would rather play most HOLP maps as they have a great "arena" layout, which is my favorite type of layout.

Sorry for the "off topic" rant. Get back to mapping Bl!tz...

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

no probs with off topics...flaks not around :p

last updates:

-all is trimed!....80 % bsp and some meshes only

-the teal light source was originaly only from skylight (it s v dark teal) but as i plane to make a ctf i ve rebuilt for third time all the sky haha and now i m happy; on one side a red nebulae & sun (main light source) and on othe side a large radius teal source from a blue nebulae (not so powerfull; only set on 0.5) to remforce the skylight "contrasting" light/color

-pathnodes have been add around the central hole

-all the "dolmens" have been symetricaly centred and are in some kind of holes to break the "monotony" of the floor

-statues and their base have been reduced 20% to free the hole(superhealth & belt)...still thoses bots dont enter it :(

-reduced a little the aircontrol on the bottom level jumppads

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Wednesday 18th of November 2009 03:42:14 AM

Bane the Zergling · crocodile dundee

Well after letting it sit on HDD for 2 days I check out last night its a nice little map for the area used.

Lighting looks funny but its ok the jump pad send you flying over the lans spots on my once or wice went over. lol

Over all great job Bl!tz. smile

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

thx mate ;)

Bane the Zergling · crocodile dundee

Thats alright mate must say I had a few spelling errors.

stevelois · ...

Hey my beloved monkey ;)

Will try your babe tonight (don't think anything wrong here...) :)

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

HMMM....hey steve can i ask you a fovour plz....dont try the RC one it s obsolete
it would be more helpfull if u had try the RC2....i ll update it in some hours
all is fixed ;still 6 BV to add; a sun to change and 4 meshes to add and i upoload it ;)
thx in advance mate; and np......lol...i bet u had told me if something was wrong....i hope ...lol^^

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Wednesday 18th of November 2009 04:03:50 PM

stevelois · ...

Ah, ok then, so I'll wait & grab the new version when available.

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

DM-Dolmens(RCF)

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

Bl!tz wrote:

...finally i got the bots collecting the s-health & the s-belt....i had to add an intermediate pathnode to prevent them to jump over the holes...

Downloading now. I will give you my thoughts by this weekend (if that's not too late).

stevelois · ...

In all maps I have to test yesterday, I started with yours mate :)

I really like those low gravity maps, the gravity in this map is super :D

No offense mate but it's not really my type of map. I do like the layout, it's the mesh work style I don't like. The mix of Necris, wood, LT assets don't work for me. It's very personal so no offense mate. Still, I can suggest few things that i think can improve it :

- The sounds radius use for the reactors in the buildings isn't wide enough. It need to be hear from more far away. Also, it need a more natural fading. You can change this very easily by playing with the min & max range. In this case, I suggest you use a minimum of 256 uu steps.

- The pp effect when your close to the reactors is a good idea but is to much abrupt. It would be a good thing if you make the coloring more redish instead of blury since your supposed to get damage when your to close.

- In the building where you have the reactors, these places are huge, therefore, I always feel "squeezed" & the flow isn't great neither. There is to much collums. I suggest you get rid of the one near the reactor in the middle so player have more room to move & will make the remaining one stand out.

- The tiles size used on the ground is much to big. The material is ok for the theme but is 4 times the player size. Also, by using different patterns, it would be more pleasing & cut the tiling even if it's less obvious judging by the pics.

- The wooden bridges that lead you to the redeemer don't fit imo (also some wood plank are floating above the chains). I would replace those mesh section (wood plank & chains) with rocks or something else.

- I can see why your using this kind of lighting. The shadows are really great so it's not about that. It's rather there isn't any contrast & all the map look the same (again no offense). I saw that often in the "ruined" type of maps, mappers put some light source at the bottom of the walls or near the top & enlight the walls downward or upward. It enlight the walls & make them stand out. The building collums don't stand out ATM so by using this method the building structure will pop's out :D

Hope that help :)

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

stevelois wrote:

I really like those low gravity maps, the gravity in this map is super :D
thx

No offense mate but it's not really my type of map. I do like the layout, it's the mesh work style I don't like. The mix of Necris, wood, LT assets don't work for me. It's very personal so no offense mate.

haha; of course no offense!but personnaly i like the mix of all thoses styles ; it just give me the feeling of something different; and in fact i m bored by asian; necris and such themes....the mix perhaps dont fit to everones attemps but it fit to the story...."a mix of stones collected all around the galaxy and revamped by the liandri for their teleporters use....the place was rearranged and they gived it back to the tournament...."

- The sounds radius use for the reactors in the buildings isn't wide enough. It need to be hear from more far away. Also, it need a more natural fading. You can change this very easily by playing with the min & max range. In this case, I suggest you use a minimum of 256 uu steps.
here too it s discutable; i have hesitate and reset it several times and i have to agree that a reactor make probably more noise but....what was my first target was to have a feeling of silent/calm place and i tryed to add a minimum of sounds and to limit their radius to keep a silence feeling...it work for me and i like the ambiant sound & athmosphere

- The pp effect when your close to the reactors is a good idea but is to much abrupt. It would be a good thing if you make the coloring more redish instead of blury since your supposed to get damage when your to close.
good point on the PP color but on the abbrupt side i dont agree lol...i think that been burn by a reactor is at least an "abbrupt" collision and if u put yer head in the flames in reality i bet the blurry effect should be "abbrupt" too haha ;)

- In the building where you have the reactors, these places are huge, therefore, I always feel "squeezed" & the flow isn't great neither. There is to much collums. I suggest you get rid of the one near the reactor in the middle so player have more room to move & will make the remaining one stand out.
*here again i dont agree and i have add the columns because while playing the map without it i had the feeling that it was missing something to hide/fire
*as they are aligned it s very easy to cross the place with a little dodge
*and visually i m happy with the colums
- The tiles size used on the ground is much to big. The material is ok for the theme but is 4 times the player size. Also, by using different patterns, it would be more pleasing & cut the tiling even if it's less obvious judging by the pics.
*i agree with you but that s for human things here on earth! here it s unreal and i saw many things more unreal than thoses surdimensionned tiles
*i have build my cheeseroom myself and i have use ceramic tiles on walls and "ground"....the scaling of real tiles i have there is from 0.02 m x0.02m for the smallest and 0.65m x 0.65m for the biggest and in the casttle around here i saw tiles with a size over 1 m x 1m
*they was set on 4 in a previous beta but dies told me they looked repetitive and that was right!but as i wanted "this material "on the ground i had to try to modify it so i tryed all sizes from 1 to 16 and this one was the best deal to my eyes

- The wooden bridges that lead you to the redeemer don't fit imo (also some wood plank are floating above the chains). I would replace those mesh section (wood plank & chains) with rocks or something else.
...........lol............it s one of my favorite part in that map....

- I can see why your using this kind of lighting. The shadows are really great so it's not about that. It's rather there isn't any contrast & all the map look the same (again no offense). I saw that often in the "ruined" type of maps, mappers put some light source at the bottom of the walls or near the top & enlight the walls downward or upward. It enlight the walls & make them stand out. The building collums don't stand out ATM so by using this method the building structure will pop's out :D
damned!....euhhhh......i like thoses contrasts dark teal/yellow sun lighting....even i m the only one to see them.....

Hope that help :)
sure it help mate; here it ll not be very usefull on the map itself as the only think i m going to change from ur feedback is the pp color but it help a lot to understand that feelings can be very differents from one peeps to another one
and all the points you have mentionned i have think hours long on....ur feedback help me a lot to be sure of my choices and it s important too :)
i pray to not be alone to like it so but honnestly i really like this map as it is now and i dont want to change anything on lighting ;gameplay or visuals...
it is just as i wanted it to be
thx for nice feedback steve and for ur time; srry to still on my positions ;)

stevelois · ...

Well, I don't mind if you don't apply the majority of my suggestion because the goal is to help you out mate & since your satisfied of your work, that what is count wink

Bane the Zergling · crocodile dundee

Getting RCF update wished I start map making but I do beta testing which i like doing.

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

thx for your time zerglings ;)

CTF Version under "hometesting" it works like a charm with low grav but i ll try to back it to normal grav to "expand" travel time between the two bases and to allow players to be more reactive

botpathing is more simple in ctf or it s me? just had to make the bots travel between bases and to drive them on "defense points" ....but i probably missed something somewhere haha

are 3 defense points enough? :
*one to keep the bottom bridge access with shock preference to push ya down ;)
*one close to the statue with a sniper preference
*one close to the superhealth in blues and the reds is close to the shield belt

yes.....for the fun i have keep the superhealth in blue base and to balance a shield belt for the reds....this way as it the less unaccessible place if u take the time you are abble to have 200 health point and the shield belt too.....but it ll take time ;)

i have deleted all weapons bases except the redeemer and the snipers close to the statues and i have add another sniper on the dolmen ring(top level) ;in the bases i have add thoses big utweaponsthings with shock rockets and flak awaiable...3 in each bases with 10 players starts at equal distances of the weapon bases...

if u think something is wrong just tell me

thx in advance

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Friday 20th of November 2009 01:06:52 AM

Odedge · Feedback-Master ..

Just played a round and here are my thoughts...

1. Really liking the new trim. Even some basic trimming can really help the map look nicer. It's nice that you used a simple texture (to contrast against the stone flooring) and a dark texture (to contrast against the light stone flooring).

BUT, it would be nice if the lower levels had the same trim!

2. Check your player start positions. When someone spawns, they should have to turn around to move forward. Rotate the player starts so they can start running into battle. Ideally, they should also be able to see a weapon base or some decent pickup (like the chest armor). But, they should never be able to grab a great pickup like the shield belt or 100 health.

3. I like that the bots not grab the shield belt and 100 health!

4. The space dome looks much nicer. What is out there can be clear seen by the player. You don't have stuff fighting for the player's attention.

5. I am guessing that the turquoise lighting is coming from the nebulae? If so, it works well with the light form the sun. Nice shadows too.

6. When you jump down the center hole, I like the "window frames" you added. A little note, a player can land on them and walk around a bit. I am not sure you wanted this to happen.

Over all, the map is looking much nicer, nice job on polishing it. With this low gravity setting, the map is fun to play (even with out the extra "z-fighting" platforms. Good luck finishing it up.

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

thx bro

1.i have add trim everywhere i was abble to do it without breaking the "block" aspect that i want to keep

2. will apply this point

3. they grab them!....here they do!

5.yes i have add a "light" light point coming from the nebulae (teal...turquoise ;)....)

6.yes i like to manage some spots like this for flying monkeys....u can also land on all the trims all around the map and as the feeling is reallistic while landing there i keep it so

Lord_PorkSword · Connoisseur of Bourbon!

Gave it a try earlier with my son (who enjoyed it immensly). Definately looks better with the trim. Odedge is right about the skydome in that it looks a lot better as well!

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

thx bro...u cant imagine how thoses words are sweet to my ears aww

-- Edited by Bl!tz on Friday 20th of November 2009 03:11:44 PM

rulaman · Unreal Old Friend

Yeah, thats it... You did some really great improvements!
The skydome is perfect, and I love the nebulas. No more moons ping-pong (lol). Great space feeling now... biggrin

My server would like to have it... smile

Bl!tz · ...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

thx my friend :)

CTF layout completed; i had to do some "modered" extensions ;)