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Post Info TOPIC: Extruding Brushes, UGH!


Padum Tsh!

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Extruding Brushes, UGH!
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Just for the sake of my Advanced BSP tut which I'm currently working on, while finishing my CTF-Rising map (Which is actually finished now with some sweat on my forehead..confuse),

I have encountered some BSP errors, and I was wondering if you guys have ever encountered similiar issues with Extruding specifically?

It occured to me in my "somehow quest to be a pro at BSP" that UE3 shows weird buggy issues from my side with Extruding brushes.
I have used alot of extruded brushes in my Rising map to save extra unnecessary brushes in terms of walls and floors, and found out that 
copying extruded brushes and place them from the original spot to spot X leads to numerous issues

With issues I sum up: BSP holes, Texture disappearing, HOM's, invisiblesomehow "out of the blue" Polygon splits and some more.
Which.. I found very strange.. since I always have been a clean mapper and I have never dared to step out once the Grid when BSP brushing.
There is no clipping going on in my extruded brushes, so any cuts in BSP seem almost impossible.

This was a hell in CTF @ (Copying entire red base to blue base), this led to all above issues, since most brushes were extruded.
I used the most likable fix for my problems.. by ofcourse Intersecting my entire base to my Builder Brush, and create an entire new base out of one brush.  
But its not the most stable solution.. since intersecting an entire base, and creating one brush out of all these 1224 brushes leads to some weird Polygon splits on each individual additive BSP surface?

For the entire invidiual base BSP copy, I have tried the following after and before encountering the BSP Holes:

- I have tried copying the Red Base and covered the Extruded brushes, that got BSP holes after copying, with BV's. No effect. 
- I have tried setting the affected BSP Holes Extruded brushes to and Semi Solid solidity, and copying+added invidually to the already copied+added base. No effect.
- I have tried to make the additive BSP brushes subtractive, and additive after again. No effect.

So the question is, did anyone encounter similiar problems with above, and if there is any fix for the future that you tried that I have overlooked? (Problems are solved tho smile, just for the sake of trying to learn from any mistakes for the future)



-- Edited by DarK on Thursday 25th of April 2013 12:50:17 PM

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...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

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lol....yeah thèses BSP problems are legion, i never find anykind of fix, what i do now is to visually check the map after some brushes addition and substraction....this way at least u ll find quickly missing textures/faces and fix em as you can (hidden behind a SM or delete the brush)
very frustrating but i think we all faced this one day or the other.....if u find a good sulution ....you ll make my day 



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I encounter this kind of issue in Amyrade and Itarion. I tried everything you mention & the only way of fixing my issue was to delete the last brush I worked on, perform a full rebuild & then redo the brush & reset brushes priority after.

Advice # 1; when you already have a brush with extruded faces, no matter if it is additive or substractive, if that brush have multiple extruded faces, you can do a right click select polygon\to brush so the builder brush will automatically be reconstruct with the complete brush geometry and then hide it by hitting "b". So you can do that & after extruded more faces. If something goes wrong, then delete the brush - rebuild - hit "b" to unhide the builder brush - click add or substract whatever your brush was.

Advice # 2; when many geometry as been altered, perform a full rebuild & play the map. Even if there is nothing wrong visually, it doesn't mean you won't end up with invisible walls or missing faces here & there.

Advice # 3; avoid at all cost converting a solid brush to semi-solid one. Select the brush, send the polys to the brush builder, delete the ogiginal brush, perform a full rebuild, recreate the brush with the brush builder using the correct solid state.

Good luck bro !

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Unreal Old Friend

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Ah, now I know what happened to your advanced tutorial Dark! I've been waiting for that. smile  You're more advanced than me on BSP but I've definitely been in BSP hell before so I know your pain.  A funny BSP tidbit on one of my maps:  on Hangar, the floating satellite next to the station was originally put there to hide a floating pie shaped, visible (through the sunlight), BSP error!  It was only after a year of development that I found the offending brush by accident (surprise, surprise it was a very complicated one).  The BSP error was gone but the satellite stayed.



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Unreal Old Friend

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stevelois wrote:

I encounter this kind of issue in Amyrade and Itarion. I tried everything you mention & the only way of fixing my issue was to delete the last brush I worked on, perform a full rebuild & then redo the brush & reset brushes priority after.

Advice # 1; when you already have a brush with extruded faces, no matter if it is additive or substractive, if that brush have multiple extruded faces, you can do a right click select polygon\to brush so the builder brush will automatically be reconstruct with the complete brush geometry and then hide it by hitting "b". So you can do that & after extruded more faces. If something goes wrong, then delete the brush - rebuild - hit "b" to unhide the builder brush - click add or substract whatever your brush was.

Advice # 2; when many geometry as been altered, perform a full rebuild & play the map. Even if there is nothing wrong visually, it doesn't mean you won't end up with invisible walls or missing faces here & there.

Advice # 3; avoid at all cost converting a solid brush to semi-solid one. Select the brush, send the polys to the brush builder, delete the ogiginal brush, perform a full rebuild, recreate the brush with the brush builder using the correct solid state.

Good luck bro !


 Good stuff Steve.  Damn, every time I look at Amyrade I wonder what hell you must have gone through with the editor.  That's one of the most complicated BSP maps ever.  Quite an achievement!



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MauL wrote:
 Good stuff Steve.  Damn, every time I look at Amyrade I wonder what hell you must have gone through with the editor.  That's one of the most complicated BSP maps ever.  Quite an achievement!

 

THX Martin biggrin

But for me, the best BSP maps remains the maps made by Crazy. I love DM-Cipe & also the WAR map (which I forgot the name while writing...).

Indeed, at some points, it was a nightmare in Amyrade !!!



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Padum Tsh!

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stevelois wrote:

I encounter this kind of issue in Amyrade and Itarion. I tried everything you mention & the only way of fixing my issue was to delete the last brush I worked on, perform a full rebuild & then redo the brush & reset brushes priority after.

Advice # 1; when you already have a brush with extruded faces, no matter if it is additive or substractive, if that brush have multiple extruded faces, you can do a right click select polygon\to brush so the builder brush will automatically be reconstruct with the complete brush geometry and then hide it by hitting "b". So you can do that & after extruded more faces. If something goes wrong, then delete the brush - rebuild - hit "b" to unhide the builder brush - click add or substract whatever your brush was.

Advice # 2; when many geometry as been altered, perform a full rebuild & play the map. Even if there is nothing wrong visually, it doesn't mean you won't end up with invisible walls or missing faces here & there.

Advice # 3; avoid at all cost converting a solid brush to semi-solid one. Select the brush, send the polys to the brush builder, delete the ogiginal brush, perform a full rebuild, recreate the brush with the brush builder using the correct solid state.

Good luck bro !


 Thanks bro! Advice #1 solved a handful of issues! 

 It seems that copying an already extruded additive brush causes some weird BSP errors, since its just a strange bug in UT3. (Probably because the extruded extra brushes, are not really extra brushes in reality. (Info from Hourences). And I got it solved by your advice by sending the polygons to my builder brush. (Not intersection, which causes polygons to split as well)


 



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Happy to see that advice number 1 help you resolve your issue bro biggrin



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