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Post Info TOPIC: CTF-Exalt feedback wanted.


Padum Tsh!

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SCROLL DOWN!!!!!



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Thursday 19th of April 2012 01:01:22 PM



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Friday 20th of April 2012 12:40:59 AM

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Padum Tsh!

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250 FPS!



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Sunday 15th of April 2012 01:28:21 AM

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It could need more contrasting, there is too much grey. It seems very one coloured especially because the colourful lights have either a too small radius or intensity.



-- Edited by Sly. on Sunday 15th of April 2012 01:53:56 AM

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Very nice Dark!

I agree with Sky but I do think it could be fixed and look excellent with better lighting.
You need some more contrasting shadows going across everything. Not sure what your BSP lightmap resolution is set to but if it's above 8 take it down to 8 or 4 on the most obvious surfaces that the player will look at, like floors and walls.
Have a directional light(sun light) in the sky and place it on a high angle so the higher building geometry and bridges cast shadows across the surfaces below them. This directional light doesn't have to be too bright. Just bright enough to give some shadows while also letting your other lights still glow!

Apart from that can't wait to check this out!  biggrin



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Just a few dot points, trying to keep it brief.

-Well its just from those vantage points I would say that there is an over use of the black and yellow trims - works ok on the walk ways but else where not so much imho.

-Also on the walkways - 3rd pic the trims aren't texturally contiguous with walkways that are at right angles (the inner texture should be confluent and have not be intersected by the trim)

-The stairs to the shield belt "appear" to steep - hard to tell explicitly from the pic tho.

-Last pic - those metal trims around the hall entrance appear at odds with the 'HU' (hall) brown brick work imho. Also the brick (wall) work has light and dark regions juxtaposed for no detectable reason.

-There are a few misaligned textures here and there but I figure your just looking for overall impressions, so I wont list them.

-I'm very encouraged with the use of custom textures. I'll have to wait till you release a beta to get a better look.

Nice progress keep up the good work.



-- Edited by Achernar on Sunday 15th of April 2012 11:09:22 PM

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Lord_PorkSword wrote:

Very nice Dark!

I agree with Sky but I do think it could be fixed and look excellent with better lighting.
You need some more contrasting shadows going across everything...........Apart from that can't wait to check this out!  biggrin


 +1 to all that, just lacking some contrasts in lighting to break the "uniform" aspect



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Unreal Old Friend

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That's imo really the only problem. Doesn't matter if there are a lot of trims with a similar structure, the lighting makes the huge difference. Rankin from UT2004 is nothing but a bunch of woodplanks and red stones combined with some metal - and also repetitive if you take a look at it in unlit view -, the lighting makes it a top notch looking level though.

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Padum Tsh!

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Sly. wrote:

It could need more contrasting, there is too much grey. It seems very one coloured especially because the colourful lights have either a too small radius or intensity.



-- Edited by Sly. on Sunday 15th of April 2012 01:53:56 AM


 +1, Thank you. I indeed lowered the radius from the green lights ;o
 I was pretty impressed you could figure that out looking from the  pictures  lol. 

 Ill remove them, and see how it will turn out with normal radius.

 For the contrasting, uhm yea :P Do you mean its too dark? Or too much  use of gray textures? < I might agree lol. 



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Padum Tsh!

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Achernar wrote:

Just a few dot points, trying to keep it brief.

-Well its just from those vantage points I would say that there is an over use of the black and yellow trims - works ok on the walk ways but else where not so much imho.

Yea, I already thought that as well. Ill try some less in the upcoming rooms. It just looks so good (A) haha

-Also on the walkways - 3rd pic the trims aren't texturally contiguous with walkways that are at right angles (the inner texture should be confluent and have not be intersected by the trim)

+1 nice one, Ill try another floor texture.

-The stairs to the shield belt "appear" to steep - hard to tell explicitly from the pic tho.

What do you mean? :) The stairs is indeed overall made about 55% smaller with 16 steps. But otherwise it would take too much room in that room. Because I want to make 2 extra doors on both sides near the entrance door.

-Last pic - those metal trims around the hall entrance appear at odds with the 'HU' (hall) brown brick work imho. Also the brick (wall) work has light and dark regions juxtaposed for no detectable reason.

This is a good one, but thats actually a custom texture. 
Ill try a more brighter texture for that.

-There are a few misaligned textures here and there but I figure your just looking for overall impressions, so I wont list them.

Yes, I just started this yesterday ;) Ill post some more when I'm done.

-I'm very encouraged with the use of custom textures. I'll have to wait till you release a beta to get a better look.

Nice progress keep up the good work. 


 +1 thank you, those are really some good points



-- Edited by Achernar on Sunday 15th of April 2012 11:07:58 PM

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Padum Tsh!

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Thanks Blitz and LPS :)

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Padum Tsh!

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Lord_PorkSword wrote:

Very nice Dark!

I agree with Sky but I do think it could be fixed and look excellent with better lighting.
You need some more contrasting shadows going across everything. Not sure what your BSP lightmap resolution is set to but if it's above 8 take it down to 8 or 4 on the most obvious surfaces that the player will look at, like floors and walls.
Have a directional light(sun light) in the sky and place it on a high angle so the higher building geometry and bridges cast shadows across the surfaces below them. This directional light doesn't have to be too bright. Just bright enough to give some shadows while also letting your other lights still glow!

Apart from that can't wait to check this out!  biggrin


I didnt lower my BSP lightmap resolution. Its probably my skylight that is on brightness 0.15 to have those colored lights come out good :P But overall its too dark yea.
 
Ill try with that directional light m8! thanks! :)
 



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You might want to use a slightly brighter floor texture, add more lights on trims and such stuff to illuminate the level more and increase the brightness and radii of a few lightsources. That's everything you will need to make it look much better. The rest would be just finetuning, it would look nice as a HOLP level. :)



WOOT AT POST #512! THE EDITOR HAS YOU!



-- Edited by Sly. on Sunday 15th of April 2012 08:08:00 PM

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I like the pics but briefly, the lighting in all the scene doesn't contrast enough.

Indeed, what the others buds suggested are good advices but also play a bit with ya posteprocessing volume, you can add much more contrast that way after your lighting base is set.

Look at my lighting tut as a starting point ;)

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-Also on the walkways - 3rd pic the trims aren't texturally contiguous with walkways that are at right angles (the inner texture should be confluent and have not be intersected by the trim)

   +1 nice one, Ill try another floor texture.

   Actually I was thinking of the bsp edging - redo so it follows the corners.   This is what I trying to say.  If this is not clear I will make pic.

The steps gradient is too high, this is at odds with player movement imho, nevertheless I'll leave final decision up to you.



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Padum Tsh!

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Achernar wrote:



-Also on the walkways - 3rd pic the trims aren't texturally contiguous with walkways that are at right angles (the inner texture should be confluent and have not be intersected by the trim)

   +1 nice one, Ill try another floor texture.

   Actually I was thinking of the bsp edging - redo so it follows the corners.   This is what I trying to say.  If this is not clear I will make pic.

The steps gradient is too high, this is at odds with player movement imho, nevertheless I'll leave final decision up to you.


 Yeah make a picture, that would certainly help.
 
@ The steps gradient is too high, this is at odds with player movement imho, nevertheless I'll leave final decision up to you. 

+1, Yea i played it a few times. But this will not be the actual level. Im planning to redo the whole level once I got the right lightning, textures and trimming matched. 
 When I look at HOLP maps, its all about gameplay. Which, should include player movement and smooth transitions of rooms and lots of Z-axis.
And this map does not really come close tho :P

But thanks, all this feedback is really appriciated :)
 



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Padum Tsh!

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stevelois wrote:

I like the pics but briefly, the lighting in all the scene doesn't contrast enough.

Indeed, what the others buds suggested are good advices but also play a bit with ya posteprocessing volume, you can add much more contrast that way after your lighting base is set.

Look at my lighting tut as a starting point ;)


 +1 Thanks man. I will experiment with that PPV.

 I was really impressed by CTF-Fatima, so I opened it in the editor to figure out how you made the lightning on that map. Also, the tut really helped :) Thanks ^^ +1.

So thats a +2 for you! biggrin



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I was simply trying to suggest that the grey floor tiles should be uninterupted - ie the edging (black and yellow strips) should go flow around it.  The same goes for the lower level floors.  HTH.

screenshot00025d.jpg



-- Edited by Achernar on Monday 16th of April 2012 12:05:59 PM

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Padum Tsh!

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I see what you mean, thanks. Will do.

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Darkn3sSx wrote:
 +1 Thanks man. I will experiment with that PPV.

 I was really impressed by CTF-Fatima, so I opened it in the editor to figure out how you made the lightning on that map. Also, the tut really helped :) Thanks ^^ +1.

So thats a +2 for you! biggrin


Great to hear this m8 héhé smile

So I'll receive 2 cookies lol aww



-- Edited by stevelois on Tuesday 17th of April 2012 04:00:07 AM

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Padum Tsh!

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So, this will be the start of Frogbite.
I really tried to pick up all the info you guys gave me and do something with it.
(too dark, less trimming, better use of textures, using directional lights and shadowing etc)

This is what came out so far. I hope you all like it.
Pictures from the red base:

What I did:

- Added a directional light and removed the skylight. 
- Blended new textures in which everything is custom. I hereby removed some old textures seeing in the first pictures. Textures did not really match and trimming looked off. Thanks Archenar, that comment really helped.
- Increased map size and destroyed the middle room walkway, which was annoying to walk on.


I was hoping on some more feedback :]
So far its looking very clean and pretty good imo. Just a slight issue with the shadows. In some corners it looks a bit off :/



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Wednesday 18th of April 2012 10:46:59 PM



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Wednesday 18th of April 2012 10:47:29 PM



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Wednesday 18th of April 2012 11:03:40 PM

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looking really better on the lighting/contrast side mate... GJ^^

not sure if i like this wall texture applied on the floor though + it add a repetitive side to the map
other point i not really find top is horizontal texturing on inclined walkways...or @ least it need some triming to hide the "junction" which seem too "brutal"
other than that ,great improvement, keep up the good work

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Really a nice progress !

The fact that it is more open, there is more lights help a lot :)

Removing the skylight isn't a good idea because you will end up with pitch black spots which look bad & isn't natural. At least use a low value like ±0.025.

The new materials is looking nice but the old lights don't fit anymore, you need something industrial so it would blend well with the bricks, a light material like CTF-Bird just to give you an idea.

I also think you should leave it pure BSP to make this map a beauty unless you plan to decorate it a lot, few meshes here & there would look out of place.

But in regard of layout, materials, lighting it's much better indeed :D



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Bl!tz wrote:

looking really better on the lighting/contrast side mate... GJ^^

not sure if i like this wall texture applied on the floor though + it add a repetitive side to the map
other point i not really find top is horizontal texturing on inclined walkways...or @ least it need some triming to hide the "junction" which seem too "brutal"
other than that ,great improvement, keep up the good work


 Thank you :)  

 Yeah a small doubt of there myself ;p
 Hmmz.. I will look into that tonight..
 Got a good 7 hours of mapping time ahead of me.
 Might as well use that biggrin 
 

 No indeed, I also doubted that trimming.
 Though, Im trying to come up with a good floor and trimming texture. 
 Which my brain currently freezes in............

 I think this was just a stakeholder for now. 

 But thanks m8, these comments are really appriciated 



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Thursday 19th of April 2012 12:54:36 PM

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stevelois wrote:

Really a nice progress !

The fact that it is more open, there is more lights help a lot :)

Removing the skylight isn't a good idea because you will end up with pitch black spots which look bad & isn't natural. At least use a low value like ±0.025.

The new materials is looking nice but the old lights don't fit anymore, you need something industrial so it would blend well with the bricks, a light material like CTF-Bird just to give you an idea.

I also think you should leave it pure BSP to make this map a beauty unless you plan to decorate it a lot, few meshes here & there would look out of place.

But in regard of layout, materials, lighting it's much better indeed :D


Thanks m8! smile

Uhm, did anyone had any problems before with a skylight + a directional light ? It seems that, if I add a skylight, the directional light suddenly stops working? even after rebuilding. Hmmz, im probably noobing again. Ill try that skylight with a very low brightness and toy around some more with that directional light ^^

Thanks, ill also try to find a better light material :) 

For the SM:
I dont think Ill keep those ripped off trees. I was just wondering how it would look and what you guys would think about it.. Now that I stare at it.. its actually not that good haha. 

Thanks again bro :) 



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I dunno why you get some problem while using a skylight + directional light. There are some settings that can be deactivate in the skylight but it's not supposed to interfere that much with the directional light unless your skylight is to bright like using a 1.0 brightness value.

Suggestions about the materials, using wood for the walkable area, some kind of simple square ciment/stone pattern for the trims would be appropriate. For the walls, the bricks fit's perfectly & for the ceeling the same materials as the floor can be use but make it a bit more darker & with a higher contrast.

smile



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And.. after 5 hours of both mapping and banging my head against my bureau:











HOLP :D

Well, I guess.



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Friday 20th of April 2012 12:42:12 AM

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Oh and I changed to name to Exalt smile

I rather not get bitten by frogs..dohbiggrin



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looking very nice mate...in a pure holp style for sure, i hope ur bureau have survive to the banging session

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Bl!tz wrote:

looking very nice mate...in a pure holp style for sure, i hope ur bureau have survive to the banging session


 Thanks :]

 Haha he took my hits from all the BSP failures biggrin 



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Nice name & nice improvements. I like the mix of the dark brown & the grey materials, good aestetic choice :D

Good to hear the desktop is still in 1 piece lol :p

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stevelois wrote:

Nice name & nice improvements. I like the mix of the dark brown & the grey materials, good aestetic choice :D

Good to hear the desktop is still in 1 piece lol :p


 Thank you! ^^ 
 It somehow really reminds me of CTF-Lopo and DM-Noca from Hourences :)

 Haha yea ;p those annoyin BSP errors really make me wanna kick the hell out of my desktop -_- OR OMG, SPENDIN 2 HOURS AND CRASH IN EXTRUDE MODE WITH THE SCALE TOOL WITHOUT AUTOSAVE -________-" hahaha

 More screenies 2 come ^^ 



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But you do work on the grid, right? Just asking.

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Sly. wrote:

But you do work on the grid, right? Just asking.


 Grid 16, just like you advised.



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Nice work, good effort.

I have to say my preference is for the lighting in the top pics. Much brighter more vibrant atmosphere. Secondly I didn't think the root braches are that bad an idea,  perhaps providing a dirt layer on top (with a tree  on the upper layer) might add a bit more interest.  Probably some high(er) poly bsp or mulitple small sized terrains. 

With respect to textures I'd recommend checking through Nobiax stock or alternatively stevelosis deviant art page for mapping resources.



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I must agree that the "brighter" style with the roots and that green light was quite interesting. You might consider going back to that.
About your BSP issues, see if you can convert some brushes to semi-solid brushes. Those pyramids for example, theoretically you could even make them non-solid if no projectile or person can reach them anyways.

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Thank you both, but I really like this style and I'll continue on this, just because it feels much more as the style im aiming for.
The trimming and materials feel much more combined right now, instead of repelling each other in that gray style it was before.


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Darkn3sSx wrote:

....
The trimming and materials feel much more combined right now, instead of repelling each other in that gray style it was before.


 agree with this ;)

Achernars mate is right about the roots braches, to me was a good idea to devellop too.....up to ur decision of course :p



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Padum Tsh!

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Hmmkay.. Ill see how it will fit once the map is finished ;)

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Padum Tsh!

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Some more work + rooms:

This is seen from the higher point of entrance to the red base. 



Second room when heading out straight from red base.
No (colored) lights yet. Will get on that.


This is seen from the left side room of the red base.


More of the left side room.


And more of the left side room ;p


That black mesh over there is an elevator, forgot to turn accept lights on -_- Flagrunners will find themselves confortable with that since they can easily jump through the hole to the second room or reach another floor of height in the same room.



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Saturday 21st of April 2012 08:13:26 PM

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Unreal Old Friend

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Hmmm... You have many visible BSP cuts and your texture alignment could need some work.

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...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

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i really like this kind of open layout, allowing all kind of flys mooves and walldodging....cant wait to do some shomboing practice there

ps: sorry for not responding on XFire, was my daughter doing scoolwork...lol....spoiled from my own pc again...i m on now...just in case ....

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Padum Tsh!

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Sly. wrote:

Hmmm... You have many visible BSP cuts and your texture alignment could need some work.


 Those cuts only come from extruding 1 layer for trimming. I dont know how  to prevent that.



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Padum Tsh!

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Bl!tz wrote:

i really like this kind of open layout, allowing all kind of flys mooves and walldodging....cant wait to do some shomboing practice there

ps: sorry for not responding on XFire, was my daughter doing scoolwork...lol....spoiled from my own pc again...i m on now...just in case ....


 Yea me too. Makes CTF a whole lotta easier having an open layout ;p
 
 N.p I just got on in god knows how long and only saw you on ;) 



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...

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Each time you show some pics, it's always for the better & it keep improving :D

Good job bro, keep it up :)

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Padum Tsh!

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stevelois wrote:

Each time you show some pics, it's always for the better & it keep improving :D

Good job bro, keep it up :)


 Thanks bro! Appriciate this comment yo :)



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Padum Tsh!

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I will not be home for the next 2 weeks = holiday :D
So, the next update will not be soon :) but hopefully the next one will be the beta plus the beta from Seraph :)

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...ǝp¡s ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uo

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have fun m8

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Unreal Old Friend

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Have fun and enjoy your holidays!

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...

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Have fun in your vacations bro :)

As for mapping, the old farts will still be here when you return lol :p

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