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Post Info TOPIC: CTF-Seraph (WIP)


Padum Tsh!

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CTF-Seraph (WIP)
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Name: Seraph
Game type: CTF
Status: WIP
Players: 7 - 14
Requirements: UT3 + patch 2.1 + Titan Pack
Dev:
Seraph is my first real brush map using almost brushes only
The map which has been, kind of an exhaust velve for my creativity and inspiration, has already seen alot of different visual styles.
But the following pictures represent the style I am current sticking with.
I am using textures used from Venom (UT99 based) which are all ripped off and edited by myself in Photoshop and illustrator.
I will release these assets later if somebody wishes to use them.
 
The map is going through a clean look, focused on gameplay and FPS. Inspiration comes alot from HOLP style maps.
My focus lies around colors since, imo, seems to be what lets UT maps breathe. So expect alot of team based colors, some smooth gameplay andofcourse the necessary Z-axis action as well.
Enjoy the WIP so far.
 
*Update 7-4*
This project is now 90% and near its ending.
I am planning to take another 5 days to look through all the geometry, fix botpaths, fix small mistakes, doing some extra stuff etc.
Therefor these are the last screenshots so far.
Hope you just a bit excited just like me :)
 
screenshot00027copy.th.jpg
screenshot00026copy.th.jpg
screenshot00025copy.th.jpg
screenshot00024copy.th.jpg



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Saturday 7th of April 2012 08:59:08 PM



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Saturday 7th of April 2012 09:03:23 PM



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Sunday 8th of April 2012 02:57:43 PM

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Amateur UT mapper

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RE: Seraph by Dark
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Nice start there. Its hard to get a sense of the map but I noticed some of your floors could use some trim.

When your ready, post your beta for some feedback.

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Unreal Old Friend

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Reminds me much of the Tron2.0 (that's a good thing as I like that style). ^^

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Padum Tsh!

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Thanks Arch for the feedback so far
And thanks Sly :)

Here is an update:

- I was indeed still working on trimming the floors, here it is so far. I also created some dynamic light from the sun
- There will probably be a Rain and a Sun version. Here is the Sun version so far i am working on. Added some sweet dynamic light to the scene. Fits the map well.
- Did less blue glow since it was pretty much too much in control of the visual.

Here are the pics: 







Jup, thats indeed fire with a glass over it. Still working on that



 



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Looks intersting M8!
I like the neon blue and Sly is right with a Tronish style happening!
Looking forward to seeing more progress!

Out of interest...whats CPN?

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Looks like a good start. I used similar lighting in my DeReZ maps as I am a big fan of Tron. I really like that color of blue you have there.

I know the map has more work to go, but as a random comment, that statue head might look a bit odd if most of the map is BSP.

Other than that, it's look good.

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Lord_PorkSword wrote:

Looks intersting M8!
I like the neon blue and Sly is right with a Tronish style happening!
Looking forward to seeing more progress!

Out of interest...whats CPN?


 Thanks Lord. 

 Yeah its kinda techy / Tron alike indeed. I made the wall material using a big dark brick wall and painting two blue stripes over it :) Kind of easy actually :P But it gives a good effect :)

For CPN its stands for Casual Pug Night. Its a project a friend of mine set up with me and another person from the PS3. You can find all the info on my blog. Be sure to check out my friend i2icochet's map CTF-K-Lined as well! I posted the thread in the UT3 Beta Section here.



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Padum Tsh!

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Odedge wrote:

Looks like a good start. I used similar lighting in my DeReZ maps as I am a big fan of Tron. I really like that color of blue you have there.

I know the map has more work to go, but as a random comment, that statue head might look a bit odd if most of the map is BSP.

Other than that, it's look good.


 Thanks Odedge.

 Yeah, that statue head is indeed a bit odd. Just dont know what I should place there instead. Any idea's for this?

In the Rain edition of the map it could be nice when you have the projecting emitting some blue light from its eyes. With a more dark enviroment.

Thanks for da feedback.



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looking very good mate, it seem it remind something to each of us...to me it have an "Itarion"ish side
i like strong colored lightings and especially blue / orange contrasts, nice start



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Padum Tsh!

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Bl!tz wrote:

looking very good mate, it seem it remind something to each of us...to me it have an "Itarion"ish side
i like strong colored lightings and especially blue / orange contrasts, nice start


 Thanks Bl!tz. Yeah the stripes are indeed much lookalike those in Itarion. Except only bigger in outline.



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Padum Tsh!

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This is the start of the WET-version of the map.
Its beginning to look really sweet. Check it out:
screenshot144.jpg

I have replaced the odd statuehead with a nice BSP sign after a comment from Odedge.
I indeed found the statue head too dark and not well on its place there.
Further I:
- Added rain through the gaps of the BSP support pillars.
- Added the trims on all edges of the floor. Needs some refinement though. Thats for last.
screenshot145.jpg

This is seen from a different angle. Detail is the moon through the left picture.
Eventually this should send a strong blue light. But i dont want to use a Post processing volume.
Still working on this.
If anyone knows something about this, feel free to hit me up :)

screenshot146.jpg

This is one of the two stairs that should lead to the upper and only ROOM. The room follows.
Changes with the Sun version is that the color of the BSP light changed :)

screenshot147.jpg

Finally, a pic from the layout itself lol. Yes, since I spent so much time on the part where the flag is.
This is when you walk straight away from the flagroom. There is a Z-axis ramp with a few pillars on it. Still need to polish that up a bit. Detail are the small incests in the walls with Fire coming from it.
Its blocked through glass and a static mesh.
screenshot148.jpg

This is where you come out of the ramp. Between the incests in the walls there is a small gap that has a 30 Thighpads pickup in it. Detail is are the trims (still working on finding a good material) and the BSP lights.
screenshot149.jpg
This is seen facing the blue base. There is a small ramp that should lead to the same room as the picture with the stairs coming from the flagroom. Did not had time to make a door lol. Working on that. A part of the roof has been cut open and some hard rain flows into the base.
Detail is that cut, the trimming around it, and the moon which again emits light through the base. See the light differences?

Hope you enjoy it so far :)
There is more coming soon.
This is beginning to look like a very detailed map which sucks up my time but hopefully, 
after 3 months of hard work from this remake from my first version... will finally be finished soon..
__________________________________________________________________________

The Sun version is not yet updated.
Still interested to see that? Both pics are on my Photobucket:


-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Tuesday 20th of December 2011 10:04:16 PM

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Feedback-Master ..

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Darkn3sSx wrote:
screenshot144.jpg
I have replaced the odd statuehead with a nice BSP sign after a comment from Odedge.

 I would have suggested something very similar to this.  It may just be me, but if you are gong with a lot of BSP, I would only add "simpler" static meshes that compliment the simple nature of BSP.

If you are going to use static meshes, use them enough so they don't look out of place..

In this picture, everything looks like it belongs in the map. smile

If both versions are going to be the same except for the weather/lighting.  It's best to complete one (so it's 99% done), then start converting the second version.

If you split the maps too early, you will be wasting a lot of time doing things twice and may get frustrated (as I have).



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Padum Tsh!

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Odedge wrote:
Darkn3sSx wrote:
screenshot144.jpg
I have replaced the odd statuehead with a nice BSP sign after a comment from Odedge.

 I would have suggested something very similar to this.  It may just be me, but if you are gong with a lot of BSP, I would only add "simpler" static meshes that compliment the simple nature of BSP.

If you are going to use static meshes, use them enough so they don't look out of place..

In this picture, everything looks like it belongs in the map. smile

If both versions are going to be the same except for the weather/lighting.  It's best to complete one (so it's 99% done), then start converting the second version.

If you split the maps too early, you will be wasting a lot of time doing things twice and may get frustrated (as I have).


 Thanks again Odedge. Yeah, I had a hard time finding a good SM to fit in  were that head was. Glad that you like it.

 I decided to do the Wet version first.
 Because this would involve inserting a lot rain meshes and a kismet  sequence which would later on, be easier to delete and redo easy stuff  like changing the day sequence lightning and skydome material from  night to day plus the BSP lights.
 I am pretty oriented on planning and the time that I am using to build  this map. So I figured this would make sense.



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Padum Tsh!

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Another question that I suppose anyone from here could help me with :x

How do you guys make a moon glowing? I know that this can be done through Post processing.
But is there any other way to do this? Have not really look into this.. So if someone knows something please reply.

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Unreal Old Friend

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Anyway looking neat ... :)

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Padum Tsh!

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MDK1311 wrote:

Anyway looking neat ... :)


 Thanks man :]



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Feedback-Master ..

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Darkn3sSx wrote:

How do you guys make a moon glowing? I know that this can be done through Post processing.
But is there any other way to do this? Have not really look into this.. So if someone knows something please reply.


Glowing?  You could try to connect somthing into the Emissive channgel for the Material node.  Then you can multiply that source (usually the texture) by a constant and set the constant to a value higher than 1.0 (which will start to make that bloom effect happen.

This way, only the moon will glow and not the other light sources.



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Padum Tsh!

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Odedge wrote:
Darkn3sSx wrote:

How do you guys make a moon glowing? I know that this can be done through Post processing.
But is there any other way to do this? Have not really look into this.. So if someone knows something please reply.


Glowing?  You could try to connect somthing into the Emissive channgel for the Material node.  Then you can multiply that source (usually the texture) by a constant and set the constant to a value higher than 1.0 (which will start to make that bloom effect happen.

This way, only the moon will glow and not the other light sources.


Perhaps I explained it wrong. I seen alot of maps where a moon has some kind of red/blue or other colory glowing ring at its surrounding.
Thats pretty much where I'm aiming for as well.

 Call me a nub but I really dont know how to do that lol :x



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Well from an outsiders perspective I would say if you have seen this effect and it's in a UT3 map then thats the best place to learn how to do it. Personally I have learn alot form just examining how other mapper achieve their results by looking at their maps in the editor and following the chain of assets used etc. If you can't get the result your looking at least you will be better able to explain where it is your having trouble. Hope this help narrow down the possibilities.

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Achernar wrote:

Well from an outsiders perspective I would say if you have seen this effect and it's in a UT3 map then thats the best place to learn how to do it.


 Quote for it's truth!  I have learned a lot from doing this.  Reverse engineering for the win.

With Epic materials, you can always "duplicate" them and mess around with the duplicated version and you won't mess anything up.

You can make that ring either with a static mesh or even a material.  In my latest map (Tapinak), I learned how to create a "glowing atmosphere" for my Earth (which is a stock Epic material/static mesh).



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Padum Tsh!

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Thanks Arch and Odedge for the feedback.

I will look into that :)

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Padum Tsh!

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Really did have time to finish anything... I'll post some new screenshots soon.

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Padum Tsh!

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Updates on my blog! click on my sign.


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Padum Tsh!

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I decided to keep continue working on this version (The regular version) after the Beta and the Final, plus feedback from mappers, I will make another version. Experimenting with 2 versions while they are both different does not make sense anymore -_-

Anyway, here is the beginning of the upper floor of the Sun-version.



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 09:23:09 AM



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 09:24:12 AM

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Padum Tsh!

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Edited the first post with some more information.

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Good progress so far :D

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stevelois wrote:

Good progress so far :D


 ...+1 i like a lot the visuals, very stylish



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It's not bad, but I feel like the texture alignment could be better on some places and maybe try to give the walls a bit more depth by subtractions or brush sinking to add some more details.

You could also add more contrasting in lighting, simply by making the setting at sunset you could add an orange sunlight with a orange skydome material. As we all know, blue and orange are big contrasts and I think this would do your map very good!



-- Edited by Sly. on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 03:28:24 PM

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Padum Tsh!

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Thx guys.

@Sly
I like your thought about the orange lightning. Ill try that out.
Im concerned for the red base tho. Imagine the same picture above but then red stripes.
Would a orange dynamic skylight do good for red?

Ill post a picture with the orange lightning. Will give at go nywho.
Good comment there m8. Im open for suggestions.

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Padum Tsh!

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Dont be alarmed everybody, Im just testing stuff out.


Ok, here is Seraph COMPLETLY different texturewise!

I took a few UT99 textures and redid the geometry some more.
This project was sort of exhaust velve for my creativity and idea's. 
So I tend to try out different styles. 

I somehow really really like this style and I think I will keep it this way.
Textures look alot better, everything looks alot more smoother and better organised. Also the trimming went alot better.

FPS does not show very lovely yet.. but then again:
Alot of custom textures plus,
Im running a crappy 9900GT on this pc.
Ill try it out how it works on my own pc (better rig)

(STILL VERY EARLY IMAGES OFC if I may continue this style)



The skylight is 0.7 and orange. Also another skydome which fits alot better now. 



Blue base.
 



One of the corners from the second picture which lead to the second floor. 



Second floor sniper point 



Going out the main hall 


Just outside the doors. Ah, the trimming worked out great :)
 



First floor


 
In another corner. 

 

 



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 11:18:42 PM

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calculating Pi by hand

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I think something's wrong with that rig, the gfx card is not crap. You said 9900GT but probably meant 9600GT? That card should run UT3 smooth at highest details and high resolution http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/88/bench/UT3.png
If these are PIE shots the fps are even worse.... Even old low end cards like 8400GT or 9400GT are capable of more frames.



-- Edited by mAlkAv!An on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 11:23:02 PM

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Don't use dynamic light for the shadows, shadows are never 100% sharp and on your previous pictures I could see you used dynamic light and on the last one I see you still do. Dynamic light is a fps eater, nothing more, so if you don't have to use it anywhere, don't.

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Latest changes are for the better :)

Advice :

avoid dynamic lighting, specially on a directional light. It as been proved to be very demanding (that is something that as been much optimize in UDK). If you want to use them, you can but use pointlight/spotlight only with a low radius (like 512 or less) so your FPS won't be impacted. It is also a good idea to disable castdynamicshadows on mover (lifts specially since they are often used).

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Padum Tsh!

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Thx for the responses. Exactly what my FPS needed

Coming along nice now.
Even running 40FPS at most places :O
Just cant figure out why its running 25 near the flag since it has even less lightning over there.

I decided to stick with this style since its way more clean and it starting to feel really HOLPish :)
The upper floor is almost done, well at least, the left side then.






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Damn, it make a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference visually ! I found it much nicer with that lighting & the added trims :D

Cool to see you resolve your fps issues :) But I have no idea why it's lower near the flag if there is nothing special ???

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Padum Tsh!

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Thanks bro :)

Nothing special. Those Necrims trims are SM's. There are
about 12 on that spot.

How about emissive materials?:

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Looking good M8!
Can't wait to try it!

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Darkn3sSx wrote:

Thanks bro :)

Nothing special. Those Necrims trims are SM's. There are
about 12 on that spot.

How about emissive materials?:


 

Mmm... if there is nothing special, I dunno why then ?

Emissive materials aren't supposed to eat resources. But another advice in that case, disable all lightmap settings on surfaces that use emissive materials & set your lightmap value to 65536.



-- Edited by stevelois on Thursday 22nd of March 2012 10:16:50 PM

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Padum Tsh!

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Thanks Lord :)

@Stevie thanks ;o FPS just went up again by 5 by disabeling the lightmap settings? That was weird but it upped 5 where the dip was?
Lol.

Ahh, dem DynamicLights are really awesome.. just so sad they suck out that FPS.
I have a light irruption coming from the west of my map, that, when having ForceDynamiclight set cast some awesome shadows through some geometry and trimming.
Is there any way to recreate this without using that DynamicLight option?

I tried using a big Spotlight using brightness 1.2 using ForceCastCompositeShadows and lowering the brightness from my Skylight from 0.4 to 0.2.
That kind of worked, but the shadowing does not look smooth. Looks all blurry and stuff.

Any idea's?



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Friday 23rd of March 2012 07:34:48 AM



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Friday 23rd of March 2012 07:35:22 AM

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calculating Pi by hand

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It's not only for performance reasons why people suggest not to use dynamic lights - the shadow calculation algorithm is just not correct and is causing artifacts. So if I got your point you want to recreate this effect which is actually an error in the older engine?
For sharper shadows on BSP geometry just lower the lightmap value in the surface properties. This is actually not the real resolution but a texel ratio, thats why lower values result in a higher lightmap resolution.
Lightmaps have an influence on the video memory usage mainly, so if you got 5 extra fps by just changing a single (?) lightmap value your rig might be running at a vram bottleneck (which I can hardly believe) or something else is off.

You might post some screenshots with console statistic comands for a better performance analysis.
In-game open the console and type "stat memory" and "stat engine" for example.

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+ lot of weidness with dynamics lights like shadows going "through" or coming from unexpected sides +.+ lol^^

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Padum Tsh!

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mAlkAv!An wrote:

It's not only for performance reasons why people suggest not to use dynamic lights - the shadow calculation algorithm is just not correct and is causing artifacts. So if I got your point you want to recreate this effect which is actually an error in the older engine?
For sharper shadows on BSP geometry just lower the lightmap value in the surface properties. This is actually not the real resolution but a texel ratio, thats why lower values result in a higher lightmap resolution.
Lightmaps have an influence on the video memory usage mainly, so if you got 5 extra fps by just changing a single (?) lightmap value your rig might be running at a vram bottleneck (which I can hardly believe) or something else is off.

You might post some screenshots with console statistic comands for a better performance analysis.
In-game open the console and type "stat memory" and "stat engine" for example.


 Thanks Malkavian, for this explanation.

 Turns out it wasnt cause by that lightmap value, i forgot to delete another dynamic light which I already deleted before by accident, but I went to an earlier point in my map after that .. -_-



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Saturday 24th of March 2012 01:06:46 AM

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Bl!tz wrote:

+ lot of weidness with dynamics lights like shadows going "through" or coming from unexpected sides +.+ lol^^


Yea I noticed that. Where it looked really good in one point where the light came in, suddenly seemed to bend shadows over colors in my map and you would have these weird highlighted parts on a flat wall on the other side of the map from a dynamic spotlight. Poop >_<



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*Update 24-3*

Im at 60% or something like that right now. Map is feeling great and running smooth.
Geometry is going good and Im really learning to find my flow into it.
Latest:











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I enjoy following your WIP :)

But for comments, since post progress on both Epic forums & here, where is your preferred forums because I'm not going to post at 2 places each time :p

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stevelois wrote:

I enjoy following your WIP :)

But for comments, since post progress on both Epic forums & here, where is your preferred forums because I'm not going to post at 2 places each time :p


Lool, well UOF is the preferred forum, because, people here actually seem to give me more feedback then over there. But I dont know who comes there, and who comes here you know.



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Ha ha, ok m8 :)

BTW, layout look really great by the pics !

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stevelois wrote:

Ha ha, ok m8 :)

BTW, layout look really great by the pics !


Thanks man :)

 



-- Edited by Darkn3sSx on Monday 26th of March 2012 12:00:06 PM

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Aigh, so this is the problem:

I started to work some more with lightning on my map, so I did the following.
If you can't follow I would like to post some screenshots to explain it better.

I currently have a Skylight with an orange color. bEnabled and only casting bCastingStaticShadows. Brightness: 0.3
I made a lava-ish like sun which is a pretty big brush. Only a Diffuse material.
So I tried to let this sort of "pop out" by placing an extra Skylight with the same settings as above with a Brightness: 0.7 with a slighter Yellow color to [B]accent over[/B] the thick orange color I have.

The lightning rebuild went nuts. It took about 8 minutes to rebuild the light.
After that, the result looked great, but my FPS went back with about 20 frames :(
No DynamicLights.. everything is static.

I found this strange, so I tried to replace the Skylight i just build with a huge spotlight over my map with the same settings above.
Removing the previous skylight I made above, so total light set up would be: 1 Skylight brightness 0.3 and one Spotlight with brightnes 0.7
The result of the lightning came out the same. But also made the problem worse....
Rebuilding Lightning only took only longer, and went from "Building Lightmaps 1 of 2" to "Building Lightmaps 1 of 4"

I removed both the Spotlight and Skylight to completly darken out my map and start over again.
I checked this in my Scene Manager.. all the Spotlights and Skylights were removed.

Rebuild lightning only went worse wtf..? It now takes about 20 minutes to build almost NO lightning.
Just the decorate lights in my map. and during build it says "Building lightnaps 1 of 6" WHILE THERE IS NO LIGHT.

Any idea's?


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Sounds strange to me, just some notes.
There is no use of 2 skylights, it can only make things worse, since a skylight already lightens the whole map uniformly. Also skylights should always have castshadows disabled.
The rendering of lightmaps (= light rebuild) is determined mainly by the surfaces/objects(BSP+static meshes) lightmap resolution, not by the lights in use.

So you haven't changed any bsp surface property?

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